What is the future of NC West?

Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Elmar » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:28 pm

I can't help the impression that Sparse/Neutron has not really understood the documentation that came with the Topaz fix. In the past NCTaiwan used to publish the original texts, and they were as short and cryptic as patch notes, prone to causing misunderstandings.

Neutron's own post isn't much better though:

Hello,

Regarding changes to Olympiad post match damage tally, this issue was reported as bug by L2RU in May and recently the fix was incorporated into the Global Version. But, we were not informed properly this change was included in a live release.

The fix addresses that the Damage Table at the end of a match did not display damage inflicted from effects such as Topaz or Kelbim's Weapon Skill. As far as we can tell the winner of a battle was already being calculated based on damage from these effects. Therefore the change should only be a cosmetic fix that better represents the battle damage being inflicted now.

This was verified by attacking a user with these kinds of skills only and still winning the battle despite inflicting 0 regular damage according to the post battle results (before the fix).

Thank You

http://boards.lineage2.com/showthread.p ... ost3565983


You can win an Olympiad match without doing any damage, be it regular or topazy, if for example your opponent gets disconnected after everybody was ported into the preparation room. Killing an opponent by Topaz would be a similar thing - you don't do any damage, but the guy is dead -> win. Basically like winning by knock-out in a real-life boxing match, as opposed to winning by points :D

Things like that are unavoidable when all the work is done by one single man. Of course Neutron's priority is to think up ways how to extract a maximum amount of money from the players' pockets - studying game mechanics comes long after that. I wonder whether there is a new QA Lead for Lineage 2 at all.


Fun fact:
NCsoft has now licensed out Lineage 2 to 37 Interactive Entertainment, a Shanghai-based company that developed an L2 browser game:
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?ne ... e=lineage2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGCQc5B8D6U

They are milking the IP for whatever they can :D
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Illogical » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:03 pm

Topaz thing is a joke, always been.
Oly never been about damage, oly always been about final hit.

Really, that 1/100000 matches that's a tie and the damage has to be calculated to see who won is irrelevant.

Maybe a few Othels and Seers depend on perma hide and doing 1 dps, but I've seen so many Othels and Seer taking hero just by decimating their opponents with sheer brute damage. And if you have to rely on tactics like perma hide doing 1 damage, you don't deserve to be hero anyway...
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Draecke » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:53 pm

Illogical wrote:Topaz thing is a joke, always been.
Oly never been about damage, oly always been about final hit.

Really, that 1/100000 matches that's a tie and the damage has to be calculated to see who won is irrelevant.

Maybe a few Othels and Seers depend on perma hide and doing 1 dps, but I've seen so many Othels and Seer taking hero just by decimating their opponents with sheer brute damage. And if you have to rely on tactics like perma hide doing 1 damage, you don't deserve to be hero anyway...


on some servers, like say chronos, this does happen regularly..
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Yoel » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:37 am

The sheeple will pay anyway for their magical marketing. Doesnt matter if they introduce expensive things or not. Been totally bored that people appear from nothing with 102+ lvl characters with more equipment what I reached without spending a single cent in the past 7 years.

I would laugh, hard if magically Jewel of the gods or 7s crystals would appear xD
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Elmar » Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:10 pm

That's not impossible. NCsoft's need for money is high:
http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170302000644

:D
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby langlang » Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:42 pm

Getting real tired of this modern trend to recycle old assets and concepts and not ever create anything new. But I guess that's what happens when corporate culture revolves entirely around making money. Moving up in the world isn't about being the best programer, artist, or developer... it's about being a money counter, a monetizer, an investor... being talented or having a brain is no longer rewarded, unless your focus is on profitmongering. Why study game design, learn to code, or master modern era digital tools when joining a company with a degree related to economics is so much more lucrative? Just keep rehashing the same old ip over and over.
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Elmar » Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:28 am

I guess that's the same mental process which makes movie companies produce sequels to successful blockbusters (Rambo I, II, III; Die Hard 1, 2, 3 ...). We just have to face it, the overall amount of creativity on this planet is limited. Once in a century or so somebody has a truly innovative idea ("make players kill monsters which lets them obtain items and experience/skills") and everything that follows is more or less a variation on that theme.

Sometimes there are actually new and innovative twists, like Shin Il-suk's incredible cynicism in the Lineage comics (Pretender King Ken Raheul actually being a better ruler than the rather useless Prince Charles type Deporojyu who has just his lineage as claim to the throne) or Kim Hyeong tae's innovative graphic language in Blade&Soul. But that's rare and long in between, and since creativity can't be bought (just look at the failure of Tabula Rasa or WildStar), NCsoft, being fully aware that they are dwarfs on the shoulders of giants, is trying to play it safe, milking their old IPs for what it's worth.

The key word here is "trying". While Lineage 2 Revolution is quite a financial success, Lineage Eternal will probably never see the light of day, and the new Lineage 2 browser game that was recently published in China is just trash:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGCQc5B8D6U
About the Oculus VR version of Blade&Soul I also have my doubts. How can a fast-paced martial arts game be suitable for a Virtual Reality platform? When the first virtual reality games were presented to the public on the 2016 Gamescom in Cologne, users already complained about disorientation when they had to walk through a stationary jungle.
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby langlang » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:56 pm

You're completely right and it makes me frustrated. Since everyone wants to make some money, they all take the easier road and play it safe, and creativity and innovation is never even given a chance it seems. With portions of the current political climate in korea being rather hostile towards gaming, all they are doing is pushing themselves into a corner. What do they do when their current shrinking playerbase gets tired of it all one day and the new generation completely snubs them for being too old fashioned and dull?
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Elmar » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:58 pm

Interestingly enough this was addressed by investors and journalists last Monday when Chief Financial Officer Yun Jae-su delivered the earnings report for the 2nd fiscal quarter 2017:
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?ne ... e=lineage2
(in the article Yun Jae-su is no longer addressed as Vice President, but that might just be an oversight by Valp)

As you can see on the second set of graphics, all the old games have generated less revenue, with Lineage 1, their old flagship, being most affected, losing again 34% quarter-over-quarter:

Image

One way to fight the trend is to shift development out of the head office in Seoul to the overseas territories, so-to-speak get "outside inspiration", input from a different angle. Yun Jae-su specifically mentions Japan, where they are, in addition to a a "big project"/대작, already developing a great number of casual games. The Iron Tiger Studios in Northern California would also fall in that category. This is a reversal of the policy that had been implemented after the failure of Richard Garriott, starting to trust foreigners again, listening to what they have to say. The good relationship that Lineage 2 Producer Juji had with Overseas Lead Game Designer Nam Taek-rim might have been a first manifestation of that new trend, to a certain degree Juji maybe even paved the way to the Koreans opening up. (Of course the people at the head office certainly also realised themselves that they had arrived at a dead end :D ).

In the meantime, as of the end of June 2017, 40% of the developers at the head office are working on mobile games, as opposed to 0% two years ago. Nevertheless Yun Jae-su does not think that in view of the declining PC game sales the company should completely focus on the mobile sector. He says that the life of NCsoft's IPs comes from the original games (우리 IP의 생명은 원작 작품에서 나온다고 생각한다) and that the company plans to continue the life of the PC games with continuous updates (계속된 업데이트로 게임의 수명을 이어갈 예정이다).

So we have a two-pronged strategy:
1. Get outside expertise from the overseas territories, fresh ideas that could appeal to the new generation of gamers.
2. Continue the boring old games as they are, with slight updates but not too much change, to keep the older generation on the hook and get content that can be rehashed on the various platforms such as mobile, virtual reality or console (the latter two at present only for Blade&Soul).
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