Lineage 2 Revolution

Re: Lineage 2 Revolution

Postby BergEr » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:11 am

Yea those sales numbers explains the push they are doing for NA/EU now.
Top streamers doing paid promos on twitch around the clock =D

Never seen NCsoft care this much about NA/EU market.
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Re: Lineage 2 Revolution

Postby Elmar » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:40 am

The interesting question is, will Netmarble be able to translate the hype into actual revenue?

I guess it all depends on the business model. Forcing players to purchase Blue Diamonds for real money so that they can trade with other players was a brilliant idea. And since Western countries have more lenient youth protection laws than Korea (L2 is 18+ over there, while it's 13+ at NCWest), there should be less legal problems than during the original launch of Lineage 2 Revolution in Korea.
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Re: Lineage 2 Revolution

Postby BergEr » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:15 am

Guess we will see in 4months~, but yea limiting trading to currency you have to buy for real $$ is smart move :)

I personally dont know anyone that will play or is even remotely interested. But just showing those revenue figures to anyone will blow their mind how an mmo on phone makes so much.
Same as people laugh about the razer gaming phone because they dont know how big some phone games are.
But is the west ready for more serious phone games?
They can probably get players as long as its not too grindy, none knows what Lineage is anyway so they dont know how grindy the real ones are =D

Do you even think the game is aimed at anyone in the 13-18 range? Like the stuff they did at Twitch con, Conan O'brien and Day9 has to be aimed at the 20+ year olds.
But I know 50+ year olds that drop 100-200€ a month on candy crush, its not bad to focus on the ones with deskjobs that got time and money to waste :)
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Re: Lineage 2 Revolution

Postby Aram » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:55 am

In Russia, I see a lot of children (10-16 years range) playing in all games, which they can download from Google Play: tanks, CS mobile versions, summoner wars and etc. Nobody cares about that, until they playing quiet :)
Also I can say, that L2R more balanced with gear, you don't need augmentation some rare skill which in the next update nobody can get, you don't need to sit at home and do the similar things 1000 times without any chance to do it a little bit later. Most things you can do in automode, a few rolls with enchanting (with lock at +10/+20/+30) and in L2store packs.
Everybody in L2R have a similar chance to get top character. Mastercard skill just help to do it faster :D
Last edited by Aram on Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lineage 2 Revolution

Postby Draecke » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:59 am

Elmar wrote:The interesting question is, will Netmarble be able to translate the hype into actual revenue?

I guess it all depends on the business model. Forcing players to purchase Blue Diamonds for real money so that they can trade with other players was a brilliant idea. And since Western countries have more lenient youth protection laws than Korea (L2 is 18+ over there, while it's 13+ at NCWest), there should be less legal problems than during the original launch of Lineage 2 Revolution in Korea.


you're wrong about European protection laws, right now in many European Countries their gambling authorities are investigating the whole concept of "loot boxes" etc and they will force any game that has anything like that to become either 18+ or have to cease such practices - EA pushed it out in the open and pandora's box refuses to be closed, it will have consequences and the general consensus from gamers in UK/BE/NL etc is that less bullshit like that in games the better so they support the notion.

let's be honest here that stuff is just not ok and never was ok - just companies pushing the line on whats allowed aka what they can get away with while making as much profit as possible - they don't care if they potentially make youths into gambling addictions or the like as long as they get money
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Re: Lineage 2 Revolution

Postby Elmar » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:52 am

I totally agree that loot boxes etc. are not ok. I am not a gambling person myself (I don't even overenchant beyond +2 + Giant's Scroll), so I personally don't see how people can get a kick out of opening 4000 Alien Reward Capsules and obtaining nothing in return. But I am aware that some people do that kind of thing, like some people do smoke even though they wake up coughing and wheezing every morning. I am also aware that gambling addicts have for example a significantly higher suicide rate than the average population and that responsible governments should do something to at least try to protect people from their own stupidity. I just think that any such effort is futile. People who quit smoking usually move on to jelly babies, dying of diabetes instead of lung cancer, and people who are locked out of casinos spend thousands of dollars on state lotteries or whatever.

You are absolutely right about companies constantly pushing the envelope with regard to what they can get away with. Just look at NCsoft's cat-and-mouse game with the Korean Game Rating and Administration Committee when they launched Lineage M:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1974&start=90#p36616

I personally would love to see European governments implementing stronger regulation for online games, and since the big companies are all located in Korea and the USA, i.e. no local jobs are in danger, it might actually happen. Let's see :)
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Re: Lineage 2 Revolution

Postby langlang » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:23 am

BergEr wrote:Guess we will see in 4months~, but yea limiting trading to currency you have to buy for real $$ is smart move :)


it's a popular system in chinese games, it also takes out a lot of the guess work when it comes to controlling ingame economies/gold sinks. I played a game called Age of Wushu (Nine Yin World in China) and one thing that was consistent over the years of game time was that prices remained relatively the same for end game gear simply because tradable currency was tied directly to real life money via direct currency sales by the company.

the only problem is, players who dont want to spend any money in the cash shop find it extremely hard to get started. you pretty much have to be on top of your econ game and follow trends to stay with the overall curve of progression and new players find that rather impossible to manage once the game reaches a certain point/age. of course, to counter that chinese companies will also introduce new servers regularly often and merge old servers. But westerners really dont like server mergers so :/
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Re: Lineage 2 Revolution

Postby Laby » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:11 pm

langlang wrote:
BergEr wrote:Guess we will see in 4months~, but yea limiting trading to currency you have to buy for real $$ is smart move :)


it's a popular system in chinese games, it also takes out a lot of the guess work when it comes to controlling ingame economies/gold sinks. I played a game called age of wushu (9yin world in china) and one thing that was consistent over the years of game time was that prices remained relatively the same for end game gear simply because tradable currency was tied directly to real life money via direct currency sales by the company.

That may be by game design rather than using real life money. If you look at EvE Online's, you can buy item (PLEX) with real mony that you can resell to real players for ingame money. Nonetheless, the inflation is there. Here is a simple exemple of what data is available to draw conclusion from :

https://community.eveonline.com/news/de ... -may-2017/

Or more simply, here is the ingame price of this PLEX item which you can buy with real money. Real money price stayed the same over the ages I believe, while over one year the price steadily increased

Image

Picture taken right now, at 19h11 CET the 24th of November 2017 :)
Laby - Naia EU Server, Ptitlaby - Gran Kain RU Server, Laby - Skelth EU Classic Server
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Re: Lineage 2 Revolution

Postby langlang » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:12 am

plex/apex/whatever eme uses are a completely different system from what Im referencing to. Those kinds of systems allow players to legally real money trade by using existing in game resources but they still can farm in game money on their own independently of the existence of plex. And of course, people do continue to farm which causes inflation.

However, In certain chinese games, the only way to trade currency is to use the currency bought directly from the company. So lets say you kill a monster, you get bound money. Bound money can only be used to buy low end/newbie stuff and to try out a handful of systems designed to get you into spending real money. If you want to buy real items, or trade with another player, then you need 'real' gold:
http://9yin.woniu.com/secret/newdo/2014/0626/11052.html

Nearly every single tradable piece of currency in game is bought from the publisher. So when the server starts, there is literally 0 money in the economy until someone spends 30 dollars to get 1000 gold. Then they take that 1000 gold and trade it to other players buying items from them. Now multiple players have gold but the total gold in existence is still 1000. However, there are still traditional gold sinks so in reality that 1000 gold eventually goes back to 0 gold as it gets burned in game until someone else buys another 1000 gold for 30$.

This absolutely stabilizes the economy and prevents inflation, end game weapons would always be worth x amount of gold and x amount of gold would always equal x amount of real life money, although end game items would shift over time as new stuff was added, it effectively created a price cap because the average pay to win player would not ever be willing to spend more than x money for any given item since the value of gold rarely fluctuated.


In lineage 2 terms, it would be like the only way to get adena would be to buy it from ncsoft. Therefore, there is no reason what so ever for bots to exist to farm currency, as no currency dropped/earned ingame is tradable. Of course, this leads to more aggressive scamming/hacking by the more shady element of rmt industry, and of course massive amounts of credit card fraud which can totally destroy the economy if the company doesn't keep on top of verifying and enforcing the legitimacy of their store. In the beta version of age of wushu, credit card fraud absolutely wiped out the economy and caused massive inflation as vietnamese players used stolen credit cards to buy insane amounts of gold and snailgames was slow to stop and remove it. When the game launched with new servers, the economy on the different servers were completely different based on the spending habits of its players. The wrecked original server has items for sale that basically cost 1800$ each, while on a server without fraud/inflation the same items were only worth 30$. Unfortunately no system is perfect, and no matter how well it is designed it still requires dedicated oversight.

My ideal system would be a completely free system between players where a player can legally trade their item and gold to one another securely for real money. Unfortunately that would never, ever happen, because why leave money on the table when you can get players to buy monopoly money from your publisher or game time tokens like plex, or charge them some kind of fee, and so on.
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Re: Lineage 2 Revolution

Postby Illogical » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:46 am

There is already an ideal MMO market concept and that's Black Desert. The game itself makes the price for every single items available. You cannot list an item for 50% less than highest one in Marketplace, the Marketplace only allows you to set it at LOW or MAX of the trending price. Price is determined by supply and adjusted every 30 minutes.
Fashion items from the "real money store" are valued by players on their price of purchasing vs. gamecode cards. Since there is no player-to-player trading everything goes via Marketplace and everybody is paying the same price for it, since all 25 servers share the same Marketplace.
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