For oldtimers

Re: For oldtimers

Postby Laby » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:33 am

Draecke wrote:
Laby wrote:Funny how I knew most of those people :)


know all of then :P and some how it's a miracle that it still took 5 years for Naia to die as it lost it's fun/mojo at that point

That's roughly Freya / High Five update at this point. High five was a nice update, but felt like "end game" where everything was almost too easy to get / use. Free stuff on Zaken. Easy quest for vesper weapon. Many quests for attributes cry. Exchange Attribute Stones for Crystals. The game felt like they were not any long dedication needed.

I guess I am getting old, always saying it was better before !
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Re: For oldtimers

Postby BergEr » Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:52 am

Illogical wrote:
socketka wrote:goha history is still on, not sure for how long.
for example naia hero list, and how it died.


Too bad old hero lists of Franz, Luna, Teon are lost...


Luna hero list was mostly a joke though (from the point where Silent etc moved over to Teon), me and zal had hero on 6 chars some months.
Ex http://imgur.com/a/DyB65 I mean sure the PP/Pala did win some legit fights but that warlord got hero without any gear on (and it was just a random warlord on my SWS account) =D
Feels fking good not doing olympiad anymore (probably my most hated aspect of the game).
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Re: For oldtimers

Postby socketka » Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:25 am

indeed this was case of low populated servers like luna or franz. most heroes were just players of that classes, did few matches and got hero. naia is currently (at least was when i left) in same situation, about half of heroes did 10 matches and took hero because of no competition. Names are absolutely unknown. If you check heroes even from 2010, you remember most of names because those people knew how to play that class.
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Re: For oldtimers

Postby Elmar » Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:13 am

Laby wrote:
Draecke wrote:... know all of them :P and somehow it's a miracle that it still took 5 years for Naia to die as it lost it's fun/mojo at that point

That's roughly Freya / High Five update at this point. High five was a nice update, but felt like "end game" where everything was almost too easy to get / use. Free stuff on Zaken. Easy quest for vesper weapon. Many quests for attributes cry. Exchange Attribute Stones for Crystals. The game felt like they were not any long dedication needed.

I guess I am getting old, always saying it was better before !


Not necessarily better, but certainly different. Times are changing, and if dinosaurs or video games don't adapt to the changing times, they die out. You can easily see the changed attitude of players from the fact that for many years now not one single Korean has died from exhaustion due to playing for several days without a break. People are just not willing to put in the effort any more.

A hardcore grind game like the early Lineage 2 would nowadays not generate the revenue to re-finance the development costs. So L2Store Heroes it is. Back in the good old days it did take much more time than now to level up a character, and even if most Heroes were botting, simply through the time that still took, they did more Olympiad matches and, before PvP software was invented, also Sieges, so they did to a certain degree learn how to play their class :)
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Re: For oldtimers

Postby langlang » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:38 am

I played a bounty hunter in prelude, and changed to summoner in c2. This is what I remember.

dimitris87 wrote:Since there was no Seven Signs nor fishing in C2 how did such potions exist? Did castles make them?

I believe the general merchant sold them. They also were a rare spoil/drop. For a while, I tried to level by myself using npc store bought potions. It was a long and tedious process... one day I got really lucky and picked up a ton of soul shots that someone dropped when they died.


2. I read on the Prelude Prima Guide that buffs like prophet buffs lasted 10minutes. Was this a typo or did they last half their "normal" time back then? And when did the change to 20 minutes happen if anyone remembers?

I believe was true, and it was one of the reasons nobody really cared about buffs in the beginning. Most people considered buffers to be worthless parasites that would do one buff and afk 10 minutes, people didn't start to appreciate buffs until towards the end of prelude when players started getting better gear and fighting harder stuff. Most buffers would instead use their level 20 heals if they didnt want to be considered useless. I believe buffs were changed in c4? Lots of stuff was changed in c4.

4. Was there a limit on stats back then like afterwards? I mean 500 crit, 1500 atk speed, 1999 cast speed, 250 run speed, etc

Wasn't possible to achieve those levels with the gear and items available. There were no agathions or tshirts or tatoos or transformations or boss jewelry. just regular armor and weapons of ng d/c/b grade. No weapon mods/stones.

5. Did people level solely in groups without spamming shots mostly in OB-Prelude-C1 or is this an over exageration? And how did people gear up? I myself had to delevel 19->15->20 in order to get top NG during C4 and I had to hunt solo on TI spiders completely alone, the place was deserted for good...


We leveled in groups. Soul shots had to be MANUALLY used on each swing, they were expensive and a huge chore so only the richest players or people who used bots/macros would use them. To compensate for this, people would hunt places like dragon valley in full groups in prelude. The only characters truly capable of soloing (without buffs) were the summoner classes, whose existence were in the extreme minority. Summoners could solo but only because of the synergy between pre 40 mage skills and the high damage of the summon. However, after the summon exp drain mechanic was introduced most players completely dropped summons. Furthermore, after level 50+ the benefit from having a summon and level 20-39 mage skills stopped happening as the skills stopped growing and didnt do enough damage.

That being said, c1 introduced the tower of isolence and c3 introduced the sevensign dungeons. By c3, people were starting to bot more and or, or at least macro a buffer for faster oop leveling. you only needed to let a buffer leach til about 52 to get all the buffs that they could provide. C3 is also when ncsoft did their first huge bot ban by changing the login protocol number which caused l2walker bots to fail to login hundreds of times a minute, making it super obvious who was botting and who was not. However, after realizing just how many people they had to ban by doing this, ncsoft kind of recoiled back in fear at the potential lose of profits and only pulled this trick a few times, many months apart, in order to mitigate the revenue loss.

6. Was there a drop/spoil rate nerf during Prelude (in contrast to OB)? I think I read that on warcry.com somewhere will try to find the link


Spoil was a huge controversy from prelude to c1. Originally, spoils went directly to the dwarf and nobody got to see what it was. The monster would simply turn blue and the dwarf would snatch the item. There was no party loot option to roll for or force share spoils. So dwarves would get free items while everyone else worked hard. At low levels this did not matter, but once people started getting to the end game of the amazingly high level of 50+ and items became super rare and therefore expensive, players started to DESPISE bounty hunters. So in c1, spoil was changed to be force shared via loot rules, completely destroying the value of being a bounty hunter. Most bounty hunters quit, to be replaced by official bounty hunter alts for the big guilds, or as mascot/worthless characters that people would only let in the party because they felt sorry for them.

7. Did u drop items even if you got PK'd or during PVP at the beginning of the game?

Yes. Death could result in item drop, and drop increased if you had high chaotic points. Players with red names from killing other players were loot pinatas. But even normal players had a chance to lose items if they died to monsters, so training npcs on players was a lucrative thing to do.

8. How did the whole clan war system with Personal Surrenders and Truce work back then?


I don't believe clan war was introduced until c1. People instead just murdered each other at the risk of losing their stuff. I dont believe prelude didn't even have castle sieges, Im fairly certain that they were introduced in c1.
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Re: For oldtimers

Postby langlang » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:53 am

dimitris87 wrote:well from what you remember in C3, if u do :D , the old clanwar/alliance war system should still be in place, do you remember how it worked? And also can u tell me how did you see people exping back then, what classes were played mostly, did they care to full buff for pvp, did archers hit hard and kill with few shots like in c4, if u saw or heard any necros owning parties?


KnightOfDarkness should know much of these but he went inactive didn't he? :'(


As I remember it, the old war/alliance system was pretty straight forward. You declare war on someone and then get to kill them with no penalty until they gave up. This meant guilds would declare war for basically forever if they wanted to squash competition or bully someone. It was a pretty easy to abuse system. Guild wars would turn into real life grudges, I know a few marriages that were destroyed due to the stress of that guild war system. People would refuse to surrender on the principle of the fact and it would consume their lives.

Highest level players in prelude were archers because they could solo dragon valley monsters and kite them. Highest level players in c1 were a mixed bag as everyone leveled together in the top floors of insolence. c2 didn't really change much but it did encourage more casual/roleplayers to pick up the summoner class. By c3, people started realizing the power of aoe leveling but were still committed to the same group leveling in toi. However as others mentioned, with more money and more gear, powerful mages like necromancer was starting to really stand out. However, the long periods of time it took to level meant nobody really had time to change classes to chase the meta. c4 is when healers/buffers and summoners started to shine. I believe c4 is when buffs were standardized to be 20 minutes, and wc/overlord got more/higher level buffs. Summoners completely dominated the hero arenas in c4, and in c5 healers were given skills to counter summoners which meant healers could beat anyone. But it would still be years before people started to level summoner because the l2walker software wasn't yet capable of botting a summoner.

The most important thing in pvp during this period was having a clutch healer. A good healer would make or break a raid, followed by having a competent sword dancer and/or blade dancer. Very few people leveled bd or sws so they could turn the tide in a fight. Groups with no live healers would get absolutely destroyed. It was at this time people realized they couldn't rely on level 52 prophets for the rest of their lives.

By interlude the value of tanks and spear users such as the destroyer was well known and everyone started equipping spears to do big dick aoe pulls while leveling. AOE leveling was the fastest way to level and remained that way for years. After that, I'm not sure. I first quit in interlude due to the frustration of the .00000001% drop rate for level 80 skillbooks, ncsoft put those skills in game with no intention of ever letting anyone have them. By the time I came back, for hellbound or the kamael, I stopped caring about meta and just played casually until GODDESS.
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Re: For oldtimers

Postby Laby » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:51 am

I believe C2 was when they introduced ToI : http://legacy.lineage2.com/news/chronicle2_01.html

iirc it was something like DV c1, ToI c2, cata / ToI c3, FoG / IT c4 xp wise

78 buffs where introduced during C4. Not many had them, I remember most buffboxes where indeed 52 or 56 still in Interlude.
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Re: For oldtimers

Postby socketka » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:04 pm

langlang wrote: I first quit in interlude due to the frustration of the .00000001% drop rate for level 80 skillbooks, ncsoft put those skills in game with no intention of ever letting anyone have them. By the time I came back, for hellbound or the kamael, I stopped caring about meta and just played casually until GODDESS.

I remember spellbooks weren't hard to get (from dinosaurs), what was hard was getting lv80 :)
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Re: For oldtimers

Postby langlang » Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:32 am

it depended entirely on the book you wanted. each dinosaur type had a different loot table for different books at different rates. the book i wanted, for example, only had 1-2 books ever drop for over a year. if your skill book dropped off the plains dinos then it was possible to eventually get. If it was like off the trex or one of those deep monster groups, it just didn't drop because it was way too hard to hunt there. The exp sucked, the monsters were too strong, and nobody knew exactly what dropped what so the community convinced itself that all books dropped from all dinos and stuck to grinding the easier ones.

Also ncsoft had that fucking hidden drop debuff script running to discourage 'botting'. Players who played outside of prime time had an insane hidden debuff modifier applied to their drop rate. Something like -15x. This is why monster drop tables on fansites were so skewed and inaccurate. It was extremely noticeable during events. If you hunted at 8 am pst, for example, you'd get 10 event items in an hour. If you hunted the exact same spot at 8 pm, you'd get 100-200 items in an hour.

and level 80 was easy if you could get into a good fog group which of course was heavily contested/kindofasecret :9

Laby wrote:I believe C2 was when they introduced ToI : http://legacy.lineage2.com/news/chronicle2_01.html

iirc it was something like DV c1, ToI c2, cata / ToI c3, FoG / IT c4 xp wise

78 buffs where introduced during C4. Not many had them, I remember most buffboxes where indeed 52 or 56 still in Interlude.


Toi was definitely in c1, its mentioned in the c1 notes and the cgi movie for c1 was toi

http://legacy.lineage2.com/news/chronicle1_01.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc7xsY4yLh0
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