Project TL

Re: Project TL

Postby KenLee » Mon May 14, 2018 3:00 am

From that graph it seems that going f2p and more p2w this year with Aion paid off.

BergEr wrote:Yea all consoles and PCs are based on x86 (and will probably stay that way for a long time now) so its a lot easier to develop for crossplatform now than before. Resolutions and hardware is pretty much similar aswell.

Blizzard went the route with dumbing down the game with diablo3 (4 player max, 6 skills and quite a controller friendly UI). They still deny it but tbh most agree that this is the case. It probably is the way to go if you wanna get big, most can't really handle too many skills anyway (though personally sweetspot is around 10 skills for ARPG), just have to make sure you leave enough depth in the game for hardcore players to feel rewarded.

Though thought this was going to be a ARPG/hackNslash, as an MMORPG its gonna be hard to make it play well on both platforms. They have to handicap the game for either side probably (in term of gameplay) and it will probably be PCs that feels bit shallow.
Id pay good money to see a movie of how devs handle this task =D


They will have it harder as either an arpg or as a mmorpg. There are already very successful arpg's out there, like Path of Exile, which stole most of the Diablo 3 players because that game has no depth and no challenge and it's long dead. To steal the thunder of a Blizzard game it's a huge deal. PoE is a game I play once in a blue moon, it is for both very hardcore and casual players. It's growing up every year, it has both PC and xbox version, it has probably more players than all NC games combined, and most importantly devs that always communicate with players and are very open, unlike NC. A game like Lineage Eternal, which is now kaput, had the advantage of better graphics and some fluidity, and that mostly because they are experienced developers. So is probably Project TL, it looks better but that's it, and that is not enough to win a lot of the existing arpg players. If they enter the arpg market with this Project TL, it's going to be the next MXM for sure, as the market was already saturated with moba style games.

As a mmorpg, I don't think NC will make another successful mmo for west, at least for PC. Most out there are slowly dying, most of them are p2w, NC ones are slowly turning into mobile style of cash shop. Even more important, how many years it took for BnS to come to west and already lose so many potential players just because of that? They will probably have better success with another mobile game than do another generic mmo, unless they do something really outstanding.
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Re: Project TL

Postby BergEr » Mon May 14, 2018 8:14 am

KenLee wrote:From that graph it seems that going f2p and more p2w this year with Aion paid off.

BergEr wrote:Yea all consoles and PCs are based on x86 (and will probably stay that way for a long time now) so its a lot easier to develop for crossplatform now than before. Resolutions and hardware is pretty much similar aswell.

Blizzard went the route with dumbing down the game with diablo3 (4 player max, 6 skills and quite a controller friendly UI). They still deny it but tbh most agree that this is the case. It probably is the way to go if you wanna get big, most can't really handle too many skills anyway (though personally sweetspot is around 10 skills for ARPG), just have to make sure you leave enough depth in the game for hardcore players to feel rewarded.

Though thought this was going to be a ARPG/hackNslash, as an MMORPG its gonna be hard to make it play well on both platforms. They have to handicap the game for either side probably (in term of gameplay) and it will probably be PCs that feels bit shallow.
Id pay good money to see a movie of how devs handle this task =D


They will have it harder as either an arpg or as a mmorpg. There are already very successful arpg's out there, like Path of Exile, which stole most of the Diablo 3 players because that game has no depth and no challenge and it's long dead. To steal the thunder of a Blizzard game it's a huge deal. PoE is a game I play once in a blue moon, it is for both very hardcore and casual players. It's growing up every year, it has both PC and xbox version, it has probably more players than all NC games combined, and most importantly devs that always communicate with players and are very open, unlike NC. A game like Lineage Eternal, which is now kaput, had the advantage of better graphics and some fluidity, and that mostly because they are experienced developers. So is probably Project TL, it looks better but that's it, and that is not enough to win a lot of the existing arpg players. If they enter the arpg market with this Project TL, it's going to be the next MXM for sure, as the market was already saturated with moba style games.

As a mmorpg, I don't think NC will make another successful mmo for west, at least for PC. Most out there are slowly dying, most of them are p2w, NC ones are slowly turning into mobile style of cash shop. Even more important, how many years it took for BnS to come to west and already lose so many potential players just because of that? They will probably have better success with another mobile game than do another generic mmo, unless they do something really outstanding.


Im very familiar with PoE, been playing it since closed beta. Got multiple lvl95+ and one thats 99 40% (could hit 100 over a weekend but lacking motivation currently).
There are for sure successfull but the market is far from saturated, PoE hasn't reached the god tier yet. Anyone can still come in and sweep milions of players if they do it well.

I dont think the arpg vs moba comparison is fair, that market was completly saturated tbh and there was no players between titles or raging at forums really.
Dota and LoL both have insane followings and Smite is doing okayish but they got their niche. It was complete suicide trying to go in there and compete with Dota and LoL. HoN was only ever a thing because dota2 wasn't out yet, as soon as dota2 beta went live HoN died.

On arpg you have a lot of people still waiting for next big thing, diablo subreddit has more diablo2 stuff than diablo3 atm and rest is just hopes and dreams for diablo4. Diablo2 is even pulling more players than diablo3 (and diablo3 had around 15 million players in the first two years). PoE isn't even close to capturing all these players yet and they struggle hard to keep their current players in the game long enough (been following this game since beta, keeping in touch with community etc). I know a hundred of diablo players that never made the swap to PoE that will instantly buy diablo4 on release if it ever happens.

Like just check the PoE reddit, its over 50% complaints usually. Every new patch its 1 month of honeymoon period and then 2 months of complaints. Also players stay about 1 month after a patch and then have a 2 month break.

The only reason diablo3 still have players is because it looks better and feels better. I have around 4000 hours in diablo3 and about 2000 in PoE. Its night and day difference of how much smoother it is to play diablo3. So I wouldn't discredit a game just because it has better looks and engine, this is currently one of the biggest drawbacks of PoE (along with how complex it is, it takes some hours to get going and most seem to not really wanna commit that :s)

Maybe its just me, but it feels amazing some days to just get home from work open diablo3 and do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU2c6iWPrtY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ9L5FmktKQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igYm5NMR8Xk
Some just want to slay some monsters in a relaxing manner sometimes. Damn even watching my videos is soothing =D
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Re: Project TL

Postby Laby » Mon May 14, 2018 8:59 am

BergEr wrote:Some just want to slay some monsters in a relaxing manner sometimes. Damn even watching my videos is soothing =D

L2 is still nice for that tho :D
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Re: Project TL

Postby KenLee » Mon May 14, 2018 10:36 am

BergEr wrote:
Im very familiar with PoE, been playing it since closed beta. Got multiple lvl95+ and one thats 99 40% (could hit 100 over a weekend but lacking motivation currently).
There are for sure successfull but the market is far from saturated, PoE hasn't reached the god tier yet. Anyone can still come in and sweep milions of players if they do it well.

I dont think the arpg vs moba comparison is fair, that market was completly saturated tbh and there was no players between titles or raging at forums really.
Dota and LoL both have insane followings and Smite is doing okayish but they got their niche. It was complete suicide trying to go in there and compete with Dota and LoL. HoN was only ever a thing because dota2 wasn't out yet, as soon as dota2 beta went live HoN died.

On arpg you have a lot of people still waiting for next big thing, diablo subreddit has more diablo2 stuff than diablo3 atm and rest is just hopes and dreams for diablo4. Diablo2 is even pulling more players than diablo3 (and diablo3 had around 15 million players in the first two years). PoE isn't even close to capturing all these players yet and they struggle hard to keep their current players in the game long enough (been following this game since beta, keeping in touch with community etc). I know a hundred of diablo players that never made the swap to PoE that will instantly buy diablo4 on release if it ever happens.

Like just check the PoE reddit, its over 50% complaints usually. Every new patch its 1 month of honeymoon period and then 2 months of complaints. Also players stay about 1 month after a patch and then have a 2 month break.

The only reason diablo3 still have players is because it looks better and feels better. I have around 4000 hours in diablo3 and about 2000 in PoE. Its night and day difference of how much smoother it is to play diablo3. So I wouldn't discredit a game just because it has better looks and engine, this is currently one of the biggest drawbacks of PoE (along with how complex it is, it takes some hours to get going and most seem to not really wanna commit that :s)

Maybe its just me, but it feels amazing some days to just get home from work open diablo3 and do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU2c6iWPrtY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ9L5FmktKQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igYm5NMR8Xk
Some just want to slay some monsters in a relaxing manner sometimes. Damn even watching my videos is soothing =D


I've seen some more arpg games out there, some released some others to come soon, and I'd say each one have a good amount of players already but not really getting new players, just switching them around and trying to grab from other arpg games. Moba vs arpg is indeed unfair but I was making a point with MXM, which got into a saturated market and had to appeal to players from the other titles to grow, and it did not. Same thing with TL, if it wants to grow it has to grab players from other arpg games, and to do that you have to come up with something outstanding, or else you're going to have only players from older Lineage titles and a few newer ones.

There is still a hunger for arpg games out there but to make it as a new arpg title it takes a lot. Some of the newer ones already released have no chance to compete even with PoE. It has to be like how Dota2 was for HoN. Good example, now that you reminded me. I was playing a lot of HoN when it got out, and it got me to quit Dota (the 1st one), but once Dota2 was out, it was simply a better game for me after I've tried, although HoN wasn't a bad game. Diablo franchise is still promising and has yet more to show us its potential but hopefully D4 is not continuing the same path as D3. I did play D1 for a bit, I did play a lot more D2 when it came out but not so much of D3. I've played lots of Blizzard titles, some of them are amazing, some of them are not, at least for me, but to make me try PoE over D3 and like it, it says something about D3. PoE is still something new, unpolished and unknown for a lot of players, still have to figure out some of the things, but it seems to do the right thing because it grows bigger and bigger each year. There are a lot of players who switched from D3 to PoE and never looked back, and this is what I call stealing the thunder. This is what Project TL has to do, make me never go back to the other arpg games. It will probably interest me more because I'm a Lineage enthusiast but it take a lot more for others.

A lot of the complains on PoE reddit are unfair or shouldn't exist, it shows the lack of perspective from some players, or they are simply childish complains. I personally see a lot of it. A few of the complains that keep coming up are quite valid, just like in many other games out there. Anyway, it shows that the game already grabbed a good amount of players and that the PoE team is at least listening, otherwise players wouldn't complain as much. Look at NC titles, I had a lot to complains about them over the years but kept them for myself most of them. It's pointless because it falls on deaf ears, nobody is listening at NC.

Yea, D3 is smooth and a lot of the graphic designs are better, although not all of it. A lot of the game design seems really dumbed down. It's not a bad game for a lot of players but yet for me PoE has something that D3 is lacking, a lot of things actually. By the way, WoW is also smooth compared with L2, yet I'd still choose L2 over WoW. Unfair comparison, as L2 was never as successful as PoE is.

In the end, Project TL has to a lot of things right to try it myself, as it seems NC is also dumbing down their games. To try it out, that would probably be in 2025 or later, as it seems it takes years for NC to release something on the west market. By that time other arpg titles will grow bigger, even D4 might come out and who knows what else. Or all this negativity is just me, as I don't have much faith in NC titles anymore. I think it finally reached me.
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Re: Project TL

Postby BergEr » Mon May 14, 2018 8:42 pm

Laby wrote:
BergEr wrote:Some just want to slay some monsters in a relaxing manner sometimes. Damn even watching my videos is soothing =D

L2 is still nice for that tho :D


Yea but you progress bit slow and it takes more effort. I really loved to grind in L2 but I would also play up to 10 chars (like "solo" trains at FoG necro spot) at once while doing so =D


KenLee wrote:I've seen some more arpg games out there, some released some others to come soon, and I'd say each one have a good amount of players already but not really getting new players, just switching them around and trying to grab from other arpg games. Moba vs arpg is indeed unfair but I was making a point with MXM, which got into a saturated market and had to appeal to players from the other titles to grow, and it did not. Same thing with TL, if it wants to grow it has to grab players from other arpg games, and to do that you have to come up with something outstanding, or else you're going to have only players from older Lineage titles and a few newer ones.

There is still a hunger for arpg games out there but to make it as a new arpg title it takes a lot. Some of the newer ones already released have no chance to compete even with PoE. It has to be like how Dota2 was for HoN. Good example, now that you reminded me. I was playing a lot of HoN when it got out, and it got me to quit Dota (the 1st one), but once Dota2 was out, it was simply a better game for me after I've tried, although HoN wasn't a bad game. Diablo franchise is still promising and has yet more to show us its potential but hopefully D4 is not continuing the same path as D3. I did play D1 for a bit, I did play a lot more D2 when it came out but not so much of D3. I've played lots of Blizzard titles, some of them are amazing, some of them are not, at least for me, but to make me try PoE over D3 and like it, it says something about D3. PoE is still something new, unpolished and unknown for a lot of players, still have to figure out some of the things, but it seems to do the right thing because it grows bigger and bigger each year. There are a lot of players who switched from D3 to PoE and never looked back, and this is what I call stealing the thunder. This is what Project TL has to do, make me never go back to the other arpg games. It will probably interest me more because I'm a Lineage enthusiast but it take a lot more for others.

A lot of the complains on PoE reddit are unfair or shouldn't exist, it shows the lack of perspective from some players, or they are simply childish complains. I personally see a lot of it. A few of the complains that keep coming up are quite valid, just like in many other games out there. Anyway, it shows that the game already grabbed a good amount of players and that the PoE team is at least listening, otherwise players wouldn't complain as much. Look at NC titles, I had a lot to complains about them over the years but kept them for myself most of them. It's pointless because it falls on deaf ears, nobody is listening at NC.

Yea, D3 is smooth and a lot of the graphic designs are better, although not all of it. A lot of the game design seems really dumbed down. It's not a bad game for a lot of players but yet for me PoE has something that D3 is lacking, a lot of things actually. By the way, WoW is also smooth compared with L2, yet I'd still choose L2 over WoW. Unfair comparison, as L2 was never as successful as PoE is.

In the end, Project TL has to a lot of things right to try it myself, as it seems NC is also dumbing down their games. To try it out, that would probably be in 2025 or later, as it seems it takes years for NC to release something on the west market. By that time other arpg titles will grow bigger, even D4 might come out and who knows what else. Or all this negativity is just me, as I don't have much faith in NC titles anymore. I think it finally reached me.


I honestly think you underestimate the amount of arpg players currently stuck in other games or not playing at all because they dont like what the market currently offer. Like my friends are playing csgo and dota due to lack of other good options, they jump into d3 for a new season and play a week and claim PoE is too sluggish and complex.

Most of the new arpgs dont have the backing of a huge company and a franchise with a lot of lore. PoE was dog shit for years, the only reason they actually made it out was their dev presence on forums and how hard Kripparian promoted the game. Kripparian alone boosted PoE growth by a few years.

Yea some complaints are shit and some valid as always. Id say more are valid than not though even though many seems retarded for someone like me that have thousands of hours in the game and know ways around what they complain about.
That has been NCs biggest problem for the western market (afaik they listen to Korean to some extent) but you can't get your voice heard from other markets unless they let other companies modify the code.
Though its not like Blizzard listens either, they ignore alpha feedback, they ignore beta feedback and they ignore the shitstorms that happen when its live. Some huge fixes takes them two years to do which could be solved in 30min.

Well yea Blizzard games are dumbed down, they focus on the ultra casual. Even the hardest thing you can do in a Blizzard game (mythic raiding) is easy compared to other games =D
Thats their target audience and they are sticking to it, its making them a lot of money aswell. If you play a Blizzard game you know its gonna be easy, shallow and smooth.

Typo on the last sentence? L2 absolutely blows PoE out of the water in that regard afaik. Its getting there though, current online peak is around 150k excluding china. Though you kinda see the problem they have if you look here and see the peak every 3 months, http://steamcharts.com/app/238960#All .
L2 had over a million unique in Korea alone in 1 month, while PoE dont share that number I doubt we're close to that. Multiboxing is also a thing in PoE which afaik Korean L2 was limited to one char per person?
They have a solid fanbase for sure, but they can lose a lot still with some decent competition. But if the others just let PoE grow for few more years they will probably be king.
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Re: Project TL

Postby KenLee » Tue May 15, 2018 11:37 am

It's true, a lot of players are playing other games waiting for other games to come out. If those players you mentioned are still with D3 and not giving PoE a chance, I doubt they will even look at Project TL. They are waiting for D4 or something else that is the next big thing. Mentioning NCSoft alone to some of these players makes them turn around.

I completely forgot about China, as I was thinking more about western, or lets say, english market. L2 is almost a dead game for most players on a few continents, even gamemetrics in Korea shows that L2 went down a lot with each year. L2 used to have a significant market in the west like 10 years ago, now it's almost dead from the looks of it.

Steam numbers for PoE are not reflecting the number of players in game. Most players use the standalone client. I do it myself as well because steam downloads the whole package thing instead of a patch file, or used to be when I tried. Sometimes on queue you can see 160k or so. Not multiboxing but you can dual box in PoE. I don't see any benefits from it, as opposed to L2, so I don't dual box. It's even worse when the game engine eat up most resources. PoE also launched in China last year, on separate servers than our global network, under Tencent. We don't have any numbers but people say it's becoming popular over there. On some recent racing event between our PoE players and China PoE players, which was mandatory to stream it, I saw that China streams had a lot more viewers than our twitch, and they had even a studio set up, like those Korean tournaments. It's no surprise they also have so many players in many other games, as nothing is as big as China.

Anyway, I still don't know if this game is going to be an generic arpg or another mmorpg. Or that is going to be release it to the western market, or just a few years later after their release in Korea. Not till long ago LE was a decent competitor to other eastern releases, and now that is out of the picture, what are people's choices? Obviously not LE. Not to forget that LE was announced and had first trailer like 7 years ago or so, I don't expect TL to be out any time soon. Also not to forget that it took NCSoft 4 years to release a title like BnS on the western market. By that time a lot of things could change. I didn't even mention the cash shop, which is quite not what to expect compared with other popular games, when you play a NC game.
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Re: Project TL

Postby Elmar » Tue May 15, 2018 2:19 pm

The business model is probably what is going to kill Project TL. Check the comments at the bottom of this page:
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?ne ... e=lineage2
Nobody complains about Lineage [1] M being laggy, the controls being unwieldy or other technical stuff - the game itself seems to be fine and rather well designed. What all the anger is about is that NCsoft disabled player-to-player trades, forcing people to purchase Blue Diamonds for real money so that they can use the Auction House:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1974&start=90#p36616

When you look at the graph on the previous page, you can see that this originally brought NCsoft quite some money, but after the first few months the players' discontent translated into actually quitting, and the quarterly revenue dropped by more than half - almost 300 million dollars - over half a year. To have or not to have 300 million ...


@ Berger:
At present one Korean player, identified by his or her Resident Registration Number, can have up to 5 Lineage 2 accounts and log them in all at the same time. If I remember correctly, this was introduced around the Freya update and met at first with a lot of ridicule, the boxed characters being called 고등어/mackerels, because such a party moved like a swarm of fish. Therefore the Fisher Kings selected during an April 1st event on each server this year were sent a box with 5kg prime mackerel from Jeju:
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?ne ... e=lineage2

:D
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Re: Project TL

Postby BergEr » Tue May 15, 2018 5:04 pm

KenLee wrote:It's true, a lot of players are playing other games waiting for other games to come out. If those players you mentioned are still with D3 and not giving PoE a chance, I doubt they will even look at Project TL. They are waiting for D4 or something else that is the next big thing. Mentioning NCSoft alone to some of these players makes them turn around.

I completely forgot about China, as I was thinking more about western, or lets say, english market. L2 is almost a dead game for most players on a few continents, even gamemetrics in Korea shows that L2 went down a lot with each year. L2 used to have a significant market in the west like 10 years ago, now it's almost dead from the looks of it.

Steam numbers for PoE are not reflecting the number of players in game. Most players use the standalone client. I do it myself as well because steam downloads the whole package thing instead of a patch file, or used to be when I tried. Sometimes on queue you can see 160k or so. Not multiboxing but you can dual box in PoE. I don't see any benefits from it, as opposed to L2, so I don't dual box. It's even worse when the game engine eat up most resources. PoE also launched in China last year, on separate servers than our global network, under Tencent. We don't have any numbers but people say it's becoming popular over there. On some recent racing event between our PoE players and China PoE players, which was mandatory to stream it, I saw that China streams had a lot more viewers than our twitch, and they had even a studio set up, like those Korean tournaments. It's no surprise they also have so many players in many other games, as nothing is as big as China.

Anyway, I still don't know if this game is going to be an generic arpg or another mmorpg. Or that is going to be release it to the western market, or just a few years later after their release in Korea. Not till long ago LE was a decent competitor to other eastern releases, and now that is out of the picture, what are people's choices? Obviously not LE. Not to forget that LE was announced and had first trailer like 7 years ago or so, I don't expect TL to be out any time soon. Also not to forget that it took NCSoft 4 years to release a title like BnS on the western market. By that time a lot of things could change. I didn't even mention the cash shop, which is quite not what to expect compared with other popular games, when you play a NC game.


The ones I know that tried PoE or expressed interest lost it quickly because how slow its in the start (and most tried it years ago, some even during desync era). From my experience most dont know what NCsoft means in terms of games. They might know that they have few games but they dont really know how its to play a game with Korean devs =D

So like most I play with, we're soon in our 30s. We dont care too much about the game we play as long as its okayish to play and we're having fun being with friends. Like when we play csgo now but some kinda hate it, but its better than nothing (though most of us have played cs together for the last 18 years).

China is an absolutely huge market. Pubg is only highest on steamcharts because China is included there (only steam game to have chinese players apparently). When china sleeps dota2 is on the top (chinese dota players dont show up on steam).
About 60% of PoE players (excluding china) is on Steam and that 150k peak was including standalone (this is the conclusion from seeing Steam data and comparing with what GGG say total is).

"We set a record number of players online (147,333 on our server alone)."
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2063122
Multiboxing is mostly for trade, tradebots while not mainstream are common (as well as normal bots). Mostly brought it up to point out that its not perfectly true online numbers in that game either.

Its going big in china for sure but also remember to take any chinese stream numbers with a truckload of salt. They are usually heavily inflated or outright just faked completly (some would count every viewer 10 times, some show total views as current live etc)

Obviously L2 had gone down, the peak was around c4. The peak on Korean players was in 2007, but it was very big at one point. The amount of people playing online games is few hundred million more now than 11 years ago.
WoW was also big ten years ago (its peak was 9-10 years ago), now its like a million players in the west. Game feels like a ghost town (I quit 3 months ago after being bullied into playing Legion).

Yea I remember seeing new about LE so long ago hoping it would get released soon. The longer they wait the more market PoE will have and the closer we get to Diablo4.
Ill still try it if its an arpg/hackNslash but got zero interest in an mmorpg =)

Elmar wrote:The business model is probably what is going to kill Project TL. Check the comments at the bottom of this page:
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?ne ... e=lineage2
Nobody complains about Lineage [1] M being laggy, the controls being unwieldy or other technical stuff - the game itself seems to be fine and rather well designed. What all the anger is about is that NCsoft disabled player-to-player trades, forcing people to purchase Blue Diamonds for real money so that they can use the Auction House:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1974&start=90#p36616

When you look at the graph on the previous page, you can see that this originally brought NCsoft quite some money, but after the first few months the players' discontent translated into actually quitting, and the quarterly revenue dropped by more than half - almost 300 million dollars - over half a year. To have or not to have 300 million ...


@ Berger:
At present one Korean player, identified by his or her Resident Registration Number, can have up to 5 Lineage 2 accounts and log them in all at the same time. If I remember correctly, this was introduced around the Freya update and met at first with a lot of ridicule, the boxed characters being called 고등어/mackerels, because such a party moved like a swarm of fish. Therefore the Fisher Kings selected during an April 1st event on each server this year were sent a box with 5kg prime mackerel from Jeju:
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?ne ... e=lineage2

:D


Yea business model is a hard one to get done right. But when you go full f2p its so tempting to go full retard to milk extra money (not having a solid longterm goal for the company/game).
Like most believe that Blizzard let diablo3 die because it doesn't bring any revenue (no mtx in the game for western players, china has though). Too much risk not enough reward to develope more stuff or it.
As someone thats bit out of touch (seems to be different games), is Lineage M same as Revolution or just similar?
Iv heard a lot of complaints from western players (mostly americans tbh, game seems to not exist in europe from what I can tell) that while L2 Revolutions was fun, it got boring real fast since the game plays itself.

Okay so now its more, the peak numbers I found was from 2007 which afaik it was max 1 or two clients per person at that time for Korea (if we ignore the fact that using someones elses Resident Registration Number only cost like $50).
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Re: Project TL

Postby Elmar » Tue May 15, 2018 6:24 pm

Lineage M and Lineage 2 Revolution look very similar. This is a screenshot from Lineage M:

Image

And this is from Lineage 2 Revolution:

Image
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1974&start=120#p37225
(Special thanks to Aram!)

Lineage 2 Revolution is developed by Netmarble on a license and under guidance of NCsoft, while Lineage M is fully developed by NCsoft itself. While Netmarble just pays royalties, like Innova for the regular version of Lineage 2, the bulk of the revenue going into their own coffers, all of the revenue from Lineage M goes to NCsoft. Through the close cooperation between Netmarble and NCsoft, and because Netmarble holds 8.9% of NCsoft's shares anyway, there have been very apparent synergies, not only in the layout of the user interface or the automated hunting, but even more with the monetization method, i.e. basically free-to-play, but de facto forcing players to buy in-game currency from the company, apart from all the extra access to dungeons etc. you can buy for real money.

So if you look beyond the graphics and the different classes (Lineage 2 Revolution has a very dumbed-down version of the original L2 classes, like when the Goddess of Destruction update came out), they are both just rather simplistic cash-grabbing machines.
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Elmar
 
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Re: Project TL

Postby KenLee » Tue May 15, 2018 6:56 pm

Elmar explained better than me. I had the same confusion about what is what. There are actually 3 Lineage games and not 2. Lineage M seems to be only in Korea and it's a NC game. Pretty much resembles Lineage 1 mmorpg. Lineage 2 Revolution is global, at least that's what I remember. When I went to my bro, he was playing every day, even leave it overnight to play itself. We're from EU, so there is L2R here. This one seems like an oversimplified version of L2 and it's not made by NC. Then there is Lineage 2 M, which resembles pretty Lineage 2 that we know it and is made by NC, and has yet to come out.
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