Let's boycott our lovely game L2 and NCSoft!

Let's boycott our lovely game L2 and NCSoft!

Postby lineagor » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:26 am

Dear Lineagers,

It is time to take action against this company which only care about how to charge our money!

It is time to take back our lovely game Lineage 2. It is time to enjoy it like we did the past years!

Please, feel free to sign this petition and spam it across the world.

Link to petition
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Re: Let's boycott our lovely game L2 and NCSoft!

Postby Illogical » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:41 am

You have to learn the game and learn to cry less.
I know plenty of people that don't spend anything and yet able to buy things like Bless Valakas just by playing the market correctly.
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Re: Let's boycott our lovely game L2 and NCSoft!

Postby Elmar » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:25 pm

You are of course free to boycott L2@NCWest or L2@Innova or in whichever territory you play. I myself for example have never purchased one single NCoin in my whole life, not out of a particular dislike against NCsoft, but simply because there is nothing in the L2Store I would want. But that's a personal decision, something you do for your own satisfaction and/or peace of mind.

Do not deceive yourself that such a boycott would in any way help you to take back Lineage 2 resp. to enjoy it like we did in the past years. The fundamental misconception here is that NCsoft would care in any way about the continued existence of a game they are phasing out anyway. Check the graphs here:
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=1974&start=130#p37375
The age of PC-based games is coming to an end; now it's all about mobile games. In the last fiscal quarter NCsoft generated a revenue of 550 million dollars from Lineage M vs. 15 million dollars from Lineage 2 worldwide.

If people insist on giving NCsoft their money, they will gladly take it. But if your boycott finds lots of supporters and the revenue doesn't cover the cost any more, Kim Taek-jin will simply pull the plug, without one moment's hesitation and without one single tear shed :D

Also check what MYSTERYouse just wrote here:
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=1975&p=37522#p37522
He is absolutely right.

There is no way out. You either pay and die in real ife of starvation, or you don't pay and your character dies on the server for lack of electricity :mrgreen:
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Re: Let's boycott our lovely game L2 and NCSoft!

Postby langlang » Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:49 pm

Voting with your wallet is a fallacy pushed by corporate think tanks in order to trick the consumer into believing they have any kind of power. They call customers consumers now for a reason, you no longer have the power you use to have as a customer that had to be courted, fought over, and made happy. The customer is no longer 'always right' in a globalized economy because business now have the option to go and trick 7 billion other human beings if you dont like what they are selling. This in turn allows corporations to pretend they dont have any kind of moral responsibility when their products cause problems as everything is the responsibility of the consumer. Boycotts are a really old concept and they only worked when they were focused on small scale localized areas/businesses that could be physically cut off from other regions and revenue sources. They do not and never will work in an online setting/globalized economy especially when vices are concerned. And don't forget, the big spenders in l2 games are not regular/rational people, but people who are addicted or have addictive personalities. They purchase products regardless of how the company treats them because for them it's more or less an irrational compulsion rather than one done after a period of rational consideration.

Just look at cigarettes, or alcohol. Everyone knows its bad for you, and 'most' people either abstain or only engage in them for purely social reasons in small amounts. So how does this industry survive if everyone knows its bad for you and the majority of people don't consume it? Simple: The bulk of the sales come from addicts/alcoholics/ect. These people represent an extreme minority of the consumer base but always make up the majority of the sales. This is cash shop economics in a nutshell. One guy spends 10,000$ while maybe 100 other people only spend 10. Who does the company focus on fleecing? The guy dropping 10,000. The people doing 10$ a month/year aren't even worth thinking about as far as the developer is concerned which results in a heavily skewed cash shop dependent system which in turn results in out right abuse as the company no longer views the smaller spenders as actual customers/players.

You can't fix this problem with a petition or a boycott. I would argue, that companies like ncsoft would actually prefer it if you boycotted their game and wasted your time on pointless petitions. That way, you aren't bothering their cash cows, whales, and addicts. When you isolate yourself from the community by stepping away from it you are basically giving the abuser full access to their victims.

The only way you will either stop them is if you create an even more addictive system for the addicts to go play, or some how make it illegal for either addicts to play video games or make it illegal for developers to specifically target addicts with their mechanics/schemes. This is a system that preys upon basic human weakness, and the the most effective way to break it is with external force (such as government intervention). The amount of effort to even get that kind of legislation written, the amount of effort required to fight an entire industry's resources of lobbyists and lawyers... are well beyond what any individual or even group of people could ever hope to put forth and of course... they know that. It's a shitty situation that requires a disproportionate amount of effort to fix for something that's suppose to be a leisure activity. For your own health, its better to just walk away. But if you really want to make change... prepare for a long battle.
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Re: Let's boycott our lovely game L2 and NCSoft!

Postby Elmar » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:46 pm

Korean players have lodged a petition with Presiden Moon Jae-in, asking for strict regulation of cash items, specifically naming NCsoft and Nexon:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=850&start=180#p37740
As I am typing this, 3540 players have signed the petition. Since the petition was considered as legitimate by the Blue House (otherwise it would not have been put up on their website), there will be a briefing at the cabinet table after the signing period has ended on Monday, February 19.

A certain problem is that NCsoft pays a considerable amount of corporate tax. Even after the initial mobile hype has abated a bit, it was still 55,619,000,000 Won aka 50 million US dollar in the last fiscal quarter:
http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx
Then you must take into consideration that NCsoft is, via the National Pension Service, 12.3% state-owned. The Korean government does not onyl via taxes directly benefit from the exploitation of gullible video gamers, but they also get a dividend for each of their 2,707,366 NCsoft shares:
http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/structure.aspx
Yes, the Korean government is the biggest shareholder at NCsoft, they have more than Kim Taek-jin who now owns only 2,628,000 shares aka 12.0% of his company.

I simply don't see the Korean government deliberately hamstringing main contributors for their budget.
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Re: Let's boycott our lovely game L2 and NCSoft!

Postby BergEr » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:13 pm

Elmar wrote:The age of PC-based games is coming to an end; now it's all about mobile games. In the last fiscal quarter NCsoft generated a revenue of 550 million dollars from Lineage M vs. 15 million dollars from Lineage 2 worldwide.


PC gaming is bigger than ever and steadily increasing, some companies have just not managed to keep up. Though if you said that PC based MMORPGs are going down id believe you.
Phones are ofc a huge market now, but its not really stealing players from PC. Console might have taken a hit, but seeing how big the switch/3ds from Nintendo is while almost directly competing with phones imo not so sure.

This phone game market feels like the rush of browser games we had in the late 90s early 00s that we all played in schools etc. Its pretty much dead now, browser market losing market every quarter and you never hear anyone talk about it pretty much. Phone game market is also quite volatile, a game can go super big in 1-3months and then drop 50% in a quarter and then be almost dead a year later (relative to the peak).

Like 10 years ago browser games was kinda hyped still, King and Zyngas games were everywhere. They made to shift to mobile and profited well from it but now it feels dead.
Spending time on your phone is starting to be stigmatized here aswell and pc/console gaming is seen as a real hobby for the masses and even someting you can go to school for (like gaming college to become pro player).

Though if streaming games as a service actually takes off I belive that will merge all markets into one with PC as lone survivor with big standalone games.

All this is from the pov from a rich western country though, I know that the Asia/pacific market is very different but it doesn't really impact the west too much (unless you happen to play games from Asian studios =).
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Re: Let's boycott our lovely game L2 and NCSoft!

Postby Retrospect » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:29 am

Why draw such a line between PC & mobile games?
IMO, large gaming corporations like NCSoft shld just develop "connected" games, e.g. raising a pet/agathion in a mobile gaming platform & being able to export these raised lvl stats to their PC equivalent.
If my memory is correct, in a past Playstation FF game, you can raise the lvl of your summons in a separate handheld tamagouchi type device & port it back to the actual FF game.
But that's just me dreaming... nowadays, corporations emphasized on earnings & development costs only...
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Re: Let's boycott our lovely game L2 and NCSoft!

Postby Elmar » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:11 pm

NCsoft has something like this with Lineage [1] Mobile Haste. You level up your character on a PC server, then "teleport" to the mobile server, hunt mosters and bosses there, for which you obtain "TAM Points" as reward, which you can then cash in on your home server:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1229&start=110#p25648
https://lineage.plaync.com/updated/haste/index
https://lineage.plaync.com/powerbook/wi ... 4%ED%8A%B8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzKiSmE ... e=youtu.be

Image

This was introduced in 2014, but since you are alone on the mobile server, like in an instance, it never really caught on. The avatars on the left are a kind of "character selection screen", they are all the player's own.
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Re: Let's boycott our lovely game L2 and NCSoft!

Postby Retrospect » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:47 pm

Image
Then...all the more they should consider this for the western market...
Thanks for the info Elmar/ Yidao.
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Re: Let's boycott our lovely game L2 and NCSoft!

Postby Elmar » Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:09 pm

BergEr wrote:
Elmar wrote:The age of PC-based games is coming to an end; now it's all about mobile games. In the last fiscal quarter NCsoft generated a revenue of 550 million dollars from Lineage M vs. 15 million dollars from Lineage 2 worldwide.


PC gaming is bigger than ever and steadily increasing, some companies have just not managed to keep up. Though if you said that PC based MMORPGs are going down id believe you.


It's not me who says that, but Korean analysts and investors :P

But you are right, I should have said "PC based MMORPGs". That's what was discussed, in precisely these words, on the quarterly earnings press conference this Wednesday (어느 순간 PC MMORPG시장이 정지됐다 - "the market for PC based MMORPGs will sooner or later come to a complete standstill"):
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?ne ... e=lineage2
(about 1/3 down the page, the 4th Q&A block from the bottom)

The person who asked the question went on to say that at present there is increasing discontent with mass-produced [PC-based] role-playing games (지금처럼 양산형 RPG에 관한 불만이 높아지고 있는) and asked whether in this situation mobile MMORPGs could be further developed (모바일 MMORPG가 더 발전할 수 있는). In replying to that question, Chief Financial Officer Yun Jae-su reiterated what he already said half a year ago, i.e. that NCsoft considers the existing PC-based games as basis, so-to-speak their stock-in-trade which can be ported to other platforms, not only mobile but also virtual reality, augmented reality and above all consoles (그래서 VR, AR 관련해서 개발하고 있다. 또한, PC 타이틀은 콘솔을 무조건 생각하고 있다).

In other words, (Asian) investors are severely worried about the decline of PC-based games and the rise of mobile games (you can see that on any public transport all over Asia), trying to egg on NCsoft to turn even more to the mobile sector, while the company is reluctant to abandon the intellectual capital they have so painstakingly developed in the past.

I myself don't play mobile games, I just occasionally watch others doing that. Aram as an experienced Lineage 2 Revolution player might know more, but I can't help the impression that massively multi-player games which have been developed for computer monitors where you can see and interact with dozens of players on a siege field can not really be ported to a small-screen device like a smartphone. Only future will tell. Fact is, NCsoft's revenue from mobile games (mainly Lineage [1] M and the royalties from Lineage 2 Revolution) dropped from 551,032 million Won to 327,101 million, i.e. by 41% within 3 months (1000 Won are 1 US dollar):
http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx
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