What is the future of NC West?

Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Elmar » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:02 pm

DIL wrote:Well, all items/skills/options/NPCs/whatever comes with a major update in the game client must be translated regardless of whether it will be used in a specific territory or not. Translators have to translate everything. Even those items that are marked by NC as 'Not Used' or 'Test Item' - absolutely everything. Therefore, Jewelry of Gods and other p2w stuff has English/Russian/Japanese/Chinese names and descriptions.


Thanks a lot for the clarification, DIL! Nothing like an inside man to clear up misunderstandings :)

Talking about insider information, the "Truffle" Quitted mentioned in his post on the previous page is an NCWest player who sometimes says things which are simply not true. Conguero is the current Community Manager at NCWest, but since apart from Lineage 2 he also has to look after the WildStar forum and doesn't play the game himself, some of the things he posts are a bit off-center. If one of his superior beings handed him an Icelandic manual about how to dismember whales (the real animals), he would post that too :D
Neutron is your counterpart at NCWest, the QA Lead for Lineage 2, and has been in that job since many years, albeit under various names (Sparse -> Neutronium -> Neutron). At present he is the Acting Producer for Lineage 2 at NCWest and therefore de jure responsible for everything Quitted mentions. De facto it's of course Territory Manager Yun Song-yi who forces him to do it :P

All the best wishes for the match against Saudi Arabia!
User avatar
Elmar
 
Posts: 4962
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:52 pm
Location: Germany/China

Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Laby » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:48 pm

RAnting here as well, because why not.

Recently a suggestion has been made on Innova's forum to add two things to Monster Race track : A Warehouse NPC, and a blue light / piedestal for the gatekeeper (like any gatekeeper in any town. Innova was extremely transparent on the process, explaining they made the request, and DIL recently posted the Korean answer on the forum :

DIL wrote:Devs refused to implement this request and marked it as 'Won't Fix'.

Currently, there is no need to consider any additional additions to the contents of the warehouse NPC in the overseas classic version of the monster arena. In addition, it is necessary to carry out various tests and reviews on the effects on the clan arena contents. Won't Fix.

The monster racecourse is not intended to be a private store for planning purposes, so it would not be appropriate to specifically add a single phase for that NPC. Indirect induction seems to be necessary so that we can use square of each town as much as possible. Won't Fix.

that's a load of bullshit from the korean devs. There is a little chance they isunderstood the request and understood it at "Change the NPC tping to Monster Arena / Clan Arena instance so it offers warehouse" instead of "Add the old Arena Manager NPC which offered warehouse service and CP restore".

If they correctly undersood it it's a big slap in the face in the form of "fuck you with your degenerated way of playing, don't shop in MRT go shop in main town, don't care about how they play in overseas regions"
Don't get me wrong, I am extremely happy to have some feedback and transparency on this, it's a great thing from Innova to communication on this matter.

I am just pissed about the usual Korean disregard, superiority and contempt, with a good dose of racism. MAy be someday they will realize there is not "the way" to play the game, but multiples way, with an infinite amount of choices, and that's exactly what makes Lineage II the awesome MMORPG it is.

I attached two screenshots on how the Monster Race track usually looks like on Skelth. Let's also precise that when you login, there is an official announcement telling you to go there to find shops
Attachments
Shot00203.jpg
Shot00203.jpg (985.9 KiB) Viewed 163 times
Shot00202.jpg
Shot00202.jpg (988.05 KiB) Viewed 163 times
Laby - Naia EU Server, Ptitlaby - Gran Kain RU Server, Laby - Skelth EU Classic Server
Pony Master \o/
Laby
 
Posts: 1744
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Elmar » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:33 am

While there is of course a good deal of arrogance and plain racism involved in all interactions between the headquarter and the overseas territories - Asians are more racist than Europeans ever were - in this case we also seem to have an unfortunate translation. Also note, Monster Arena and Monster Race Track are two different things. This is the Monster Arena:

Image
http://lineage2classic.power.plaync.com ... 0%EC%9E%A5


Without having seen the original Korean text it's of course hard to say, but I have the impression that "indirect induction seems to be necessary so that we can use square of each town as much as possible" means:

We want to make life at the Monster Race Track as uncomfortable as possible [the "indirect induction"] so that the shop Dwarves move to the towns squares which would otherwise be rather empty and convey the impression of a dead server. Apart from that, teleportation fees are an important adena sink, and players circumventing that by meeting up at the Monster Race Track for free would in the long run unhinge the in-game economy.


In other words, the developers actually were trying to explain the reasons behind their decision, not simply declaring ex cathedra "we won't fix it". But somehow that got lost in translation :)
User avatar
Elmar
 
Posts: 4962
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:52 pm
Location: Germany/China

Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby DIL » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:48 pm

Guys, that was a google translation from Korean :) I didn't want to wait until their tester gives the proper translation into English and shared their reply from google just to show the main reason why they refused.
Well, as for the amount of private stores, I think I'll attach some screenshots of our MRT to the request ticket, and we'll see. But most likely nothing is going to be changed in this matter.
User avatar
DIL
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:36 pm

Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Elmar » Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:30 am

Ah, Google! That explains it :)

By the way, when you contact the developers over that matter again, you could try to argue via the live servers, where there is a Warehouse NPC on Fantasy Island, which has free teleportation access just like the Monster Race Track. I don't know the situation on the European or Russian servers, but on the NCWest server Chronos, all the private stores are in Giran, none on Fantasy Island and none in Rune, Dion etc.
On Naia even the "indirect induction" with the lower base price for Spirit Ore etc. in Giran has no effect - all the private stores are in Aden, none on Fantasy Island and none in Giran, Rune etc. (I guess this is because the Naia players go shopping while waiting for a Kartia party to form).

In other words, "indirect induction" doesn't work - it's other factors (the strongest of them probably being plain simple tradition) which induce players to set up their stores in specific places. As you resp. the developers can see from Laby's screenshots, the private stores at the Monster Race Track on Skelth already do exist, even without the convenience of a Warehouse Keeper. Adding that NPC can't make things much worse. On the other hand, acceding to the players' suggestion would create a joyful atmosphere on the Innova forums ("one can actually talk to those people") and thereby in the long run increase NCsoft's revenue.

Just try it. The worst thing than can happen is that the developers reply again with a "Won't Fix" :D
User avatar
Elmar
 
Posts: 4962
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:52 pm
Location: Germany/China

Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby KenLee » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:32 am

In all my years playing on the old Bartz, when it was p2p, I've never seen that amount of shops in MRT. I remember there used to be a personal warehouse npc which I've rarely use it, and also a cp healer near the arena, which was quite useful. I think both of them were gone at some point and there was no point in joining MRT, as obviously nobody was watching the race between mobs and I think they even removed the mobs at some point and kept the race sound. It was quite some time, might not remember well. However, the most amount of shops I've seen in there you could count those on fingers. The shops on old Bartz and today Chronos were always in Giran, easily accessible from anywhere including nobles teleport (then soe ouside arena), and some in Aden. In EU, on Core+Ramona server (why not rename it CoRa, like the hypermarket chain; btw, when is it going to change to a proper name?) all the shops are in Aden (ty for the lag) and none in Giran. On both NA and EU there is no shop in fantasy island. I find it very strange that people keep shops in MRT where the space is quite limited and access to vendor npcs is none. Only because of free teleport?
KenLee
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:32 am

Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Laby » Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:11 am

DIL wrote:Guys, that was a google translation from Korean :) I didn't want to wait until their tester gives the proper translation into English and shared their reply from google just to show the main reason why they refused.
Well, as for the amount of private stores, I think I'll attach some screenshots of our MRT to the request ticket, and we'll see. But most likely nothing is going to be changed in this matter.

Well that explains it a bit, thank you for clearing that up. I am still surprised and angry at the overall answer, but alas nothing much can be done there if they simply don't want to / don't have the ressources to (and the second part is not really justified imho).

Thanks for following that up :D

KenLee wrote:In all my years playing on the old Bartz, when it was p2p, I've never seen that amount of shops in MRT. I remember there used to be a personal warehouse npc which I've rarely use it, and also a cp healer near the arena, which was quite useful. I think both of them were gone at some point and there was no point in joining MRT, as obviously nobody was watching the race between mobs and I think they even removed the mobs at some point and kept the race sound. It was quite some time, might not remember well. However, the most amount of shops I've seen in there you could count those on fingers. The shops on old Bartz and today Chronos were always in Giran, easily accessible from anywhere including nobles teleport (then soe ouside arena), and some in Aden. In EU, on Core+Ramona server (why not rename it CoRa, like the hypermarket chain; btw, when is it going to change to a proper name?) all the shops are in Aden (ty for the lag) and none in Giran. On both NA and EU there is no shop in fantasy island. I find it very strange that people keep shops in MRT where the space is quite limited and access to vendor npcs is none. Only because of free teleport?


I believe it's the free teleport aspect, especially since it was harder at server start. Giran > Aden is 20,000 adena if I remember correctly, and on a good day at EV I can farm like 20k / hour as profit. Adena is not really scarce, but not so easy that you can easily spend 100k adena in few minutes on TP
Laby - Naia EU Server, Ptitlaby - Gran Kain RU Server, Laby - Skelth EU Classic Server
Pony Master \o/
Laby
 
Posts: 1744
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Elmar » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:02 am

I also think that initially, when the server was just opened and nobody had any adena, the deciding factor was indeed the free teleport. Later there was certainly also an "accretion effect". When there are already seven Dwarves sitting at the Monster Race Track, the 8th and 9th Dwarf will think: "Oh look, so many shops. That means many many customers browsing those shops. Let's set up our own shops right next to them so that we can also benefit from all those passers-by."
In this way a tradition is set up and it's very hard to break that later on.

Keep in mind, in the original version of Lineage 2 the Monster Race Track was only added in Chronicle 2. By that time there were already established markets, primarily selling D-Grade Shots and buying materials, in Gludin Village, Gludio and Dion. Even though many players were trying to save money by running between towns and the free teleport to the Monster Race Track would have come in handy, that place never really established itself as a center of commerce. Business on the town squares was just running too well and moving to a new location would have meant an initial loss in revenue - if nobody else followed the move, a permanent loss.

It could be argued that setting up Lineage 2 Classic with a full map right from the beginning instead of faithfully following the slow Chronicle-to-Chronicle growth of the original version was a mistake. But now L2C is what it is - a game of its own. Trying to "indirectly induce" aka force players into a certain behavior pattern - in this case set up their shops on the town squares - won't work. There is a good reason why those shops are at the Monster Race Track (shops lure in customers, customers lure in shops), and if the developers wanted to change that, they would have to completely remove the MRT from the map, replacing it with an open hunting ground. Some lore about "escaped race monsters" could be made up, but such a move wouldn't sit well with the player base.

Instead of triggering an outrage on the forums, just adding the Warehouse NPC and making everybody happy would be the better solution all around.
User avatar
Elmar
 
Posts: 4962
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:52 pm
Location: Germany/China

Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby KenLee » Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:56 am

I remember I was doing the same, running in between towns and teleport, as adena was quite scarce in the early game. I remember I made a dwarf to sell and buy stuff in Giran and it took me a lot of time to run there, even swimming iirc. Same for sieges, every week I was walking my character in the area with some hours earlier. But still no shops in MRT, I was only going there for some wasting time in arena or remove 1h silence from raids. Then they introduced 3rd class and new areas and adena was more manageable but some teleports were still expensive, like 50k in dino island so everyone was swimming for a bit then soe. After GoD I didn't even care about teleport cost from one end point to another end point.

Now that I came back to the game, this feels again like the early Chronicles. I have to use noble teleports, soe, free teleport scrolls from Penny and so on. The adena drop is a joke, it seems lvl 98 drop the same as lvl 80. I have to count all the adena I get from daily quests, which are quite limited. Even then, lvl 80 quests give the same as much higher level ones. Old content like Zaken/Freya alone can give more than any of the 97+ instances. I have no idea what these devs are doing.

I got carried again but anyway, if they want to remove the shops from MRT they can make the entry fee 15k adena or something, or remove the option from gatekeepers.
KenLee
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:32 am

Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Elmar » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:49 pm

Or implement a hard-wired prohibition on setting up private stores, like in Gracia you can't summon friends or in instances you can't change to your dual class. But this would again lead to an uprising on the forums.

Like Laby wrote above, one of the things that make Lineage 2 so attractive is the liberty it offers, the many choices that a player has to play the game. In the the regular version those choices have already been narrowed down significantly, things like the Kekropus Starter Quest Series, or now the Adventure Guild Quests, through their exorbitant quest rewards "indirectly inducing" players to go to only a few selected hunting grounds. In theory you can still hunt at the Hot Springs, but at the Wall of Argos you gain a whole level per quest.

The reasoning behind this narrowing down of choices is similar to what the developers wrote in their message to DIL - they want to channel the players to certain places (a select few hunting grounds resp. the town squares) to avoid giving the impression of empty servers. This reasoning makes sense for the Asian territories. Asians like it crowded. 热闹/"hot and noisy", as we say back home. This does not necessarily apply, at least to the same degree, to Western territories. On our forums you also see people complaining about "dead servers", asking for merges, but there is a considerable percentage of the player base who actually appreciates empty hunting grounds where you can do your daily quests in peace. Empty town squares are a minor consideration.

Making the developers understand this fundamental cultural difference will be difficult, like many Europeans simply can't get it into their head that in East Asia dogs are a just a source of protein and not "man's best friend". On the other hand, Global Producer Nam Taek-rim is not stupid. When DIL sends him screenshots of the Monster Race Track on Skelth, he can see that the shops are already there, even without a Warehouse NPC. And since Director Nam has been a member of the development team since the early Chronicles, he will certainly be aware that any attempts to micro-manage mass behavior are bound to fail. Remember the Campaign Quests at the beginning of GoD? Nobody was doing them, and in the end they were abolished, the Altar of Shilen being made constantly available.

If DIL handles this right, there is a fair chance that the honorable Mr. Nam will actually learn from history :D
User avatar
Elmar
 
Posts: 4962
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:52 pm
Location: Germany/China

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Draecke and 2 guests