What is the future of NC West?

Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby BergEr » Thu May 24, 2018 9:56 pm

Quitted wrote:The new privacy policy page is another problem.
This could only mean a big chunk of ncwest customers are from eu and this is another big problem.


They have to comply with GDPR even if only one person is from an EU country. Most companies roll out same system for the whole world because its easier, no chance to miss an EU person.
The man hours and money spend to setup this system is nothing compared to the fines of just one person slipping through the cracks.
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby KenLee » Fri May 25, 2018 8:22 am

Laby wrote:
KenLee wrote: After reading tons of feedback, it seems like NCWest employees have absolute no power of deciding, everything comes from Korea. They are the ones deciding. From those comments I also read that the ones in charge, from Korea side, have no sense of what western market need or want and they take no advice.


Why Innova is not a subsidiary company and a publishing company, this is the same thing for them. Everything is done & decided by Korea, including L2 Store content and pricing (as far as I recall from Fragola Twitch stream). While Innova can request things and give their inputs, they seems to have a small margin to do things

Actually these independent publishing companies can ask for custom changes, but obviously it has to be approved and developed by Korea. They have some liberty to remove or add some of the content to cash shop and put their own prices, with obvious items that are licensed or locked behind a specific territory, designed for EU/NA/KR/CN whatever.

I can speak more about Aion, since that is what I was playing till recently. Gameforge was more open about saying these things over the years, and they do have a little deciding factor, unlike NCWest. They even ask players what items they want to see in the shop next months, so shop changes are not that locked. Problem is that requesting a change withing the game to Korea, like custom npc, custom quests, custom event and so on, to be approved and developed then sent back (untested most time), tested and sent back if it's not working, can take up to half year. By this time another big patch comes, which can make that change useless. Besides that, the custom contend have to be localized for 3 languages (EN/FR/GER) under EU law. The way they initially make these custom changes until polished, makes me believe that for overseas territories NC has hired part time students. So imagine the disappointment of players, as the publisher will look quite incompetent. But overall I look at Aion under Innova (RU), Gameforge (EU) and NCWest (NA) and they are quite different from each other. The one under Innova is the most custom one, looking more like a custom private L2 server.

The prices are also different, overall more expensive in EU than KR or even NA but it's also custom by country. Gameforge has different prices for different countries. You can buy lets say 3-4k coins (depends of event discount) for like 100 euros in countries like Bulgaria, Romania and so on, and barely 2k coins for like 200 euros in Germany and further west countries. A lot of players tried to circumvent this and got banned, the only way to bypass it is to trust and give money to someone living there, buy stuff and gift/trade everything to you in game. So a working custom price is in place and Innova could do that too.

As for L2, only played for a bit but I can see some changes for different territories. Under Innova I can still buy giant enchants from mentor npc, I can buy brooches and jewel box from mammon with GE/EOD, I can take balthus knight path, buy shirt and enchants with adena. In NA I don't see those things. Actually I remember years ago that enchants were an option at mentor npc in NA as well. The shop in NA looks more offensive and a lot more expensive than what I see under Innova cash shop.

tl'dr: I think they have more of a deciding room than they let us believe.
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Quitted » Fri May 25, 2018 9:22 am

BergEr wrote:
Quitted wrote:The new privacy policy page is another problem.
This could only mean a big chunk of ncwest customers are from eu and this is another big problem.


They have to comply with GDPR even if only one person is from an EU country. Most companies roll out same system for the whole world because its easier, no chance to miss an EU person.
The man hours and money spend to setup this system is nothing compared to the fines of just one person slipping through the cracks.


I'm from EU as well.
Trust me for a corp which has 3-4 eu customers it requires less time and money [attorneys] to delete the accounts.
Otherwise if we are speaking about 500 to 1.000 eu users well yes you have to configure the whole systems so it matches the GDPR.
I don't want to read the privacy page because i'm more than sure that there's no mention to the DPO (GDPR art 37).
I'll let some one else to sue them :)
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Elmar » Fri May 25, 2018 9:36 am

KenLee wrote:... Problem is that requesting a change withing the game to Korea, like custom npc, custom quests, custom event and so on, to be approved and developed then sent back (untested most time), tested and sent back if it's not working, can take up to half year. By this time another big patch comes, which can make that change useless. Besides that, the custom contend have to be localized for 3 languages (EN/FR/GER) under EU law. The way they initially make these custom changes until polished, makes me believe that for overseas territories NC has hired part time students ...


Those are interns:
https://recruit.ncsoft.net/korean/caree ... ntern.aspx
mostly from the Institute for Advanced Game Education at Seogang University in Seoul:
https://www.soganggame.ac.kr/
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby BergEr » Fri May 25, 2018 4:33 pm

Quitted wrote:
BergEr wrote:
Quitted wrote:The new privacy policy page is another problem.
This could only mean a big chunk of ncwest customers are from eu and this is another big problem.


They have to comply with GDPR even if only one person is from an EU country. Most companies roll out same system for the whole world because its easier, no chance to miss an EU person.
The man hours and money spend to setup this system is nothing compared to the fines of just one person slipping through the cracks.


I'm from EU as well.
Trust me for a corp which has 3-4 eu customers it requires less time and money [attorneys] to delete the accounts.
Otherwise if we are speaking about 500 to 1.000 eu users well yes you have to configure the whole systems so it matches the GDPR.
I don't want to read the privacy page because i'm more than sure that there's no mention to the DPO (GDPR art 37).
I'll let some one else to sue them :)


Just delete accounts? So any American that goes for holiday in the EU has their account deleted (or you block access from EU countries)? Yea that wont work well.
GDPR covers anyone in a EU country, citizen or not.
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Quitted » Fri May 25, 2018 10:41 pm

BergEr wrote:
Just delete accounts? So any American that goes for holiday in the EU has their account deleted (or you block access from EU countries)? Yea that wont work well.
GDPR covers anyone in a EU country, citizen or not.


No.

Art. 3 GDPR Territorial scope

This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data in the context of the activities of an establishment of a controller or a processor in the Union, regardless of whether the processing takes place in the Union or not.
This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data of data subjects who are in the Union by a controller or processor not established in the Union, where the processing activities are related to:
- the offering of goods or services, irrespective of whether a payment of the data subject is required, to such data subjects in the Union; or
- the monitoring of their behaviour as far as their behaviour takes place within the Union.
This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data by a controller not established in the Union, but in a place where Member State law applies by virtue of public international law.

If you are an us citizen the gdpr doesn't apply to you
https://www.workplaceprivacyreport.com/2018/01/articles/international-2/does-the-gdpr-apply-to-your-us-based-company/
https://www.pcmag.com/article/356899/gdpr-what-americans-need-to-know
Only eu citizens are protected by the GDPR

I'm a lawyer and to do such a work for a corp i will ask at least 10.000 $ eventually 50.000 $
Now if we are talking about deleting 100 eu accounts before the miming will stop there won't be any ncwest to sue.
If we talk about deleting more than 500 account of players who spend 100 $ x month well it's worth the deal.
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby BergEr » Sun May 27, 2018 5:59 am

Quitted wrote:
BergEr wrote:
Just delete accounts? So any American that goes for holiday in the EU has their account deleted (or you block access from EU countries)? Yea that wont work well.
GDPR covers anyone in a EU country, citizen or not.


No.

Art. 3 GDPR Territorial scope

This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data in the context of the activities of an establishment of a controller or a processor in the Union, regardless of whether the processing takes place in the Union or not.
This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data of data subjects who are in the Union by a controller or processor not established in the Union, where the processing activities are related to:
- the offering of goods or services, irrespective of whether a payment of the data subject is required, to such data subjects in the Union; or
- the monitoring of their behaviour as far as their behaviour takes place within the Union.
This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data by a controller not established in the Union, but in a place where Member State law applies by virtue of public international law.

If you are an us citizen the gdpr doesn't apply to you
https://www.workplaceprivacyreport.com/2018/01/articles/international-2/does-the-gdpr-apply-to-your-us-based-company/
https://www.pcmag.com/article/356899/gdpr-what-americans-need-to-know
Only eu citizens are protected by the GDPR

I'm a lawyer and to do such a work for a corp i will ask at least 10.000 $ eventually 50.000 $
Now if we are talking about deleting 100 eu accounts before the miming will stop there won't be any ncwest to sue.
If we talk about deleting more than 500 account of players who spend 100 $ x month well it's worth the deal.


Guess the info I've been told about this is wrong though. But isn't in a position where I had to fine comb the documents.
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Quitted » Mon May 28, 2018 9:14 pm

I was thinking
it seems no one cares of reading something before spending hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of real usd
Log in on innova - test - to get 1 jewel lvl 5 you will need at least 1.000 jewel boxes lvl 1
Log in on ncwest 300 $ = 100 jewel boxes x 10 = 3.000 $
Lon in on innova or rochard there are only one or two jewels lvl 5 of each type per event.
Jeez i'm always astonished to see how dumb an human beeing can be.
And i hate myself to have been so dumb to spend on ncwest too.

I have an offer for Elmar. We are rich Yidao you know it we can spend 79.000 $ to buy 6 lvl 6 jewels and a dragon weapon.
We could do the mithril mine quest so fast :mrgreen: we will be naked but with top end jewels and weapon :?:

It's like returning to an elementary school and to see childs playing with monopoly's money to buy streets, houses.
This time they are using real money to buy monopoly's items.

Dang
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby Elmar » Tue May 29, 2018 5:22 am

I suspect that many of the people who spend big amounts of real money to buy Monopoly items are not actually stupid in the sense of having an IQ below 100. It's probably more that those people have real-life problems (insecurity, lack of self-esteem or whatever) and that all those posts about having spent so many hundred dollars and having gotten nothing in return are in reality some sort of bragging: "Look, I am so rich that I can afford to throw all that money away!"

The moral problem with this is that NCsoft is deliberately playing on people's weaknesses, exploiting them, trying to get as much of their money as they can. Neurotics are not nice people and at the end of the day you can't help them. People are what they are. But for an 11.9% state-owned company it would be a sign of basic decency to at least not make their situation worse than it is anyway ...
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Re: What is the future of NC West?

Postby KenLee » Tue May 29, 2018 10:53 am

For me the amusing part is how people fall into these money spending traps. One of the recent NC West topics I was reading, was about lowering prices for boxes so they can sell 1500 of them. They need to sell 1500 packs is the idea behind. I'm sorry but people thinking like this one are the ones that already got trapped into this. They don't 'need'.

In Aion, under NC West, they started doing the same thing, it's called 'Community Milestone Rewards'. Random example: during some event it encourages you to enchant stuff and saying your item enchant level will only decrease by 1 and not reset or break if the enchantment fails, and it fails a lot the higher the enchant level is, but the thing is that most of the enchant stones during these events come from store because game drops are almost non existent, or you need to hoard them for many months and on many alts as f2p player. So here come NC West and says, if this number of attempts are reached the whole server will get 2x xp for some time, then if this number is reached the server will get 50% increase drop rate and so on. It never amazes me how many are actually spending tons of money on the store during these events. Even more funny is that a lot of these people are not even utilizing their overenchanted gear, they just afk in town to look pretty, and in most cases it's totally unnecessary to have such gear if they enchant the pve one. Then they make another character, another class, wait for another similar event to spend more money and gear their alts. I must say that NC is somehow genius for making so many players spend hundreds of dollars individually on pixels, with each event.
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