Dreadnought Oly setup?

Re: Dreadnought Oly setup?

Postby Hyperlite » Tue May 10, 2011 7:22 am

roksonixx wrote:maximum clarity talisman :)

i guess i just cant decide what route to go, where's the fine line between having lots of hp, doing lots of damage, and having "decent" run speed,

if ncsoft had made the char with 1 more dex, would you go and do +1con-1dex?

there must be some way of calculating damage output vs hp to see where they meet, and that is obviously the best setup for olympiad


no because HP isnt the problem with battle roar, revival and a life force. the dps is the problem and the ranged attacks, as well as mana conservation against healers. my con rating only concerns me about stun resist, which when paired with lionheart every match, i would keep the same stats.
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Re: Dreadnought Oly setup?

Postby roksonixx » Tue May 10, 2011 6:41 pm

so by your post you'd recommend a haste pole for olympiad since it gives more pdef but does nothing for stun resist?

with epics, lionheart, and a talisman of grounding i'm pretty sure you'd be unstunable anyway, so why don't you recommend going +str+dex --con for oly? gives best damage output

or you can look at this way, the longer you tank, the more skills you can use in a longer time, the more stuns you can use the more you'll stun them etc...

or we can look at extremes, 1hp but big damage output, or 10000000hp and little damage output? where's the middle ground? do we trust that ncsoft has balanced the char perfectly with no tats?

attack speed surely has no use in olympiad because it doesnt affect skill refresh, whereas having more hp gives survivability
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Re: Dreadnought Oly setup?

Postby Nuku » Tue May 10, 2011 6:56 pm

against certain classes it's important to have fast skill execution, --dex means slower skill use, the more atk.spd the better.
++con is nice, but not when you have to either lose run/atk/skill.spd or p.atk/skillcrit ratio.
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Re: Dreadnought Oly setup?

Postby Hyperlite » Tue May 10, 2011 8:35 pm

roksonixx wrote:so by your post you'd recommend a haste pole for olympiad since it gives more pdef but does nothing for stun resist?

with epics, lionheart, and a talisman of grounding i'm pretty sure you'd be unstunable anyway, so why don't you recommend going +str+dex --con for oly? gives best damage output

or you can look at this way, the longer you tank, the more skills you can use in a longer time, the more stuns you can use the more you'll stun them etc...

or we can look at extremes, 1hp but big damage output, or 10000000hp and little damage output? where's the middle ground? do we trust that ncsoft has balanced the char perfectly with no tats?

attack speed surely has no use in olympiad because it doesnt affect skill refresh, whereas having more hp gives survivability


First off, neither SA gives more Pdef. not sure what you meant by that but the SA choice has nothign to do with stun resist or Pdef.

A Grounding Talisman isnt even needed, as there is a cap of 90% to stun resist. that talisman slot is better used for a different, more useful talisman. (life force, divine prot, speed, max clarity)

I said a haste pole is most likely the best pole for most DN's, unless SP/Adena is put into skill OE's to maximize HP regen at the start of a match. If you don't have Health on your pole, u need a low grade weapon with health to switch to in order to use revival (higher 10% cap to cast revival). In all honesty, having 2 poles (1 health and 1 haste) with opposite elements would be the absolute best set up to take into oly along with a bow. But this is expensive for most people, so a more practical approach is 1 pole based on your skill OE's.

look at the Health vs. Haste SA discussion this way:

Health SA gives +25% HP, with the right skill OE's you regen back the loss you start with by using buff/aug weapons at the beginning of a match by sitting down before the match begins. This gives you 20-25% more HP to start the match with than you would have with a haste pole. When you use revival, your Health SA pole will also net an additional +25% HP that it fills over a haste pole. The same can be said for when using a Life Force, an additional +25% HP over the haste pole. If you revival with a C grade health weapon to get the higher 10% rating to use the skill, once you switch back to your Haste pole you loose that extra HP netted by the Health SA in the first place. Health is also amazing for ganking and Mass PvP, but kind of useless for PvE.

In a regular match, a health pole will provide +75% more HP than a Haste pole if used correctly with Revival and Life Force.

Haste SA gives +11% atk speed. In the time it takes a Health Pole user to regular attack 10 times, the Haste pole user will attack 11 times (roughly 10% faster). This is very useful when trying to add more damage and especially when u have to melee (instead of using skills). This happens against tanks and healers, so its not somethign to ignore. Normal swings are used in Oly, and quite often. Also take your PvE situation into consideration. A Health pole provides no real benefit when XPing, a haste pole does. This has to be taken into consideration as XPing is the only way to better enchant your skills.

Now which is better? Does the 11% atk speed equate to more damage than the slower attack speed does with 75% more HP over the course of a match? Also remeber that Life Forces arent easily obtainable to use every single match, so the boost is most likely 50% instead of 75% for normal matches. Also remember that Revival doesnt always get off in time even with a Health pole equipped. There is no easy answer, as it really depends on gear, skill OE, who your fighting, etc. As i said, i prefer a Health Pole, But I am also working on a Haste Pole with opposite element to use when i pass the 25% bonus HP health gives.



Moving on to your stat question, higher Str is always an excellent choice. Your skills have more chance to crit and you have more Patk, which means more DPS. Modifying Dex will give a slight run speed increase, slight increase to atk speed and a small increase to crit rate and accuracy. Accuracy isnt needed with the 2 toggles available to increase accuracy. The run speed boost is very small. A DN's crit rate is already low as is, so the +4 DEX wont help that at all. And the atk speed bonus is also so small and the DN's natural atk speed is so low that the increase isnt even noticable. Now doing an additional -4 CON lowers your base stun resist (which is countered by lionheart) but sucks for fights against tanks, as lionheart wont last the whole match. -4 CON also lowers max HP (by a very noticable amount) and lowers the HP/CP regen rate by a noticable amount (especially when trying to regen the 25% HP at the start of an oly match by sitting).

In the end, modifying DEX does not give enough of a boost IMO to counter the benefits in HP pool and HP regen that CON gives. I still say the best set up is +5 STR -5 CON, +4 WIT, -4 INT. This gives you the ability to cast buffs the quickest and maximizes your STR stat as best you can, while maintaining an excellent HP pool and decent HP regen. I have competed in open oly for over a year now on my DN, and have a pretty decent feel as to what it can and cant do. I will also state I have never losst to an equivalently geared DN who went +5 STR +4 DEX and -9 CON when I was with my Stat set up i listed above.



But I do suggest you experiment with multiple set ups to find what works for you the best. farming open on a DN is nto an easy task, as it is definitely poorly equipped in the skill department when compared to other melee DPS classes. Try using what myself and others have said as a starting point to build your character from instead of copying it directly.
Last edited by Hyperlite on Wed May 11, 2011 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dreadnought Oly setup?

Postby roksonixx » Tue May 10, 2011 10:10 pm

thanks for the in depth reply, i didn't mean pdef when i wrote that line, infact i can't even figure out what i meant in the first place now....i know that an SA doesnt give pdef or stun resist i must've been in my own world at the time

if you go --con, is a warlords stun resist with full epics still capped with lionheart? ive been in a match before where a dwarf was completely chain stunning me with a +10 armour crush, probably luck, but at 90% chance each time it's a bit suspicious...i wasn't -con at this point either

i've never tried this but can't you VR hp back from the oly manager at the start with melee hits ?

i can't believe that enchanting passives for +0.1 bonus is the difference between regening the hp back at the start and not...that wouldnt make me switch from haste to health just because i didnt get "that last 20hp" back. by the time you've casted your stuff and you sit down then theres 30-40 seconds left on the counter, doors open at 10 seconds, that gives you 20 seconds of regen at least, (i dont know if this is correct but if we're getting +0.1 per enchant that's +3hp per tick at +30), thats 60hp extra in the whole time you're waiting...i assume you enchant boost HP for life aswell? a warlord will have well over 10k at the time, this wouldn't sway me between health or haste but i'm not sure of the enchants so....

also vs healers and ee/se imo you NEED a maximum clarity talisman... i never do oly without one...block WW and all that crap always seem to land so melee hits are completely useless against them from what ive seen, being able to spam skills and keep then stunned with 0mp is a godsend because it renders them useless trying to get augment nukes off whilst you're trying to chase them

as for haste vs health, surely if haste improves attack speed by 11% then the ABSOLUTE MOST you can do in terms of "more damage" is 11% if you are constantly hitting that person with melee, in oly a dreadnought surely relies on skills for the first 30 seconds of the match vs 60-70% of opponents, so tanking that person for an extra few hits might make the difference,

at the minute im leaning heavily towards just a +wit tat, and a health pole, as it seems to make the most sense. but i think thats due to the fact that my char already seems "balanced" enough for olympiad. i'm sure if i was an orc, i'd put no tat's too just because going -5con for a few hundred patk just to see your hp plummet makes me wonder if it's worth it.

maybe when i get an SA on my pole i'll consider the +str, dn's hp is one of the reasons it "should" be a tough class to beat

summoners and necromancers do my head in too, cant kill the summoner, cant kill the summon
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