About the splitting up of the Tyrr Warrior class

Re: About the splitting up of the Tyrr Warrior class

Postby KenLee » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:01 pm

It seems like you want to move skills to classes they already had similar skills but you forget about some others having similar skills too. Berserker rage is not tied up to skills like frenzy, you have lionheart that is basically 80% resist debuff as berserker rage is and a few other skills that resemble rage, war cry that is 25% P.Atk and final frenzy that increase P.Atk while HP falls. These are all human skills and some other warriors like dwarfs or tyrant don't have it. Boost is not tied up to duelist spirit, all warriors receive final secret at lvl 81. Barrier only comes from duelist and khavatari, what it has to do with DN? On that matter disarm is only for two classes and we can continue with skills. If we go back to what it was, duelist would be again the king of PvP warriors and you would have again useless meat shields like dwarfs and to some degree the others. With the old 34 class system we had so many useless classes andtoo much discrepancy between same archetype.
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Re: About the splitting up of the Tyrr Warrior class

Postby Dreamer » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:04 pm

I would be interested if they plan to remove some of the existing skills. Cos give a Titan Frenzy+Rage+Giant Barrier seems pretty OP.
Tyrr Titans will be imba at Oly with the use of Frenzy etc. + Undying will/Disparation.

As for myself, i still dunno if i should switch from Tyrr Duelist -> Doombringer.
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Re: About the splitting up of the Tyrr Warrior class

Postby Elmar » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:18 pm

About that we can't make any predictions at all. It looks like the developers are working their way through the archetype groups Wednesday by Wednesday, which would mean that Warriors are pretty much finalized for now. The announced changes to Dwarves and Orcs wouldn't have an impact on Duelists and Doombringers anyway, and as it looks now, the July Update might only be forthcoming in August. The publication of the 8th part of the Lionna comic was delayed by one day, so the developers might really be trying to buy time :D
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Re: About the splitting up of the Tyrr Warrior class

Postby KnightOfDarkness » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:13 pm

Well the thing is the different warriors had different skills to boost them but were overal solid in their different areas. Now they generally don't perform well but with every cooldown popped they can wipe parties alone. Thats a huge issue.

Also zealot gave debuff resistance as well and functions much closer to beserker rage. Also debuffs aren't nearly as devastating as they used to be since their durations are a lot shorter. Also duelist and GK could only attack while invincible in one update and they quickly fixed that and if anything DN was the survivability warrior as it had to be in a mass of people and mobs and didnt do much damage anyway.
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Re: About the splitting up of the Tyrr Warrior class

Postby Elmar » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:19 am

Since my Maestro belongs to the Warrior group, you won't see me complaining about reduced cooldowns. But of course you are right - at the moment the developers appear to behave in a not totally rational way. On the other hand GM Ishune said that this character (i.e. class) balancing is conducted on the basis of in-game statistics:
http://lineage2.plaync.co.kr/board/gmro ... eId=545959

So the developers must have some arcane reason why they do what they do. Maybe they really rely too much on one vs. one Olympiad statistics, neglecting open-world party PvP? Olympiad statistics are relatively easy to handle, while getting a statistical grip on what's going on in the hunting grounds requires deeper digging into the server logs.
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Re: About the splitting up of the Tyrr Warrior class

Postby KenLee » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:35 am

"balancing"... that's a word I wouldn't use it. You had 34 classes but lots of them were useless PvP classes for years, including your Maestro... they never tried to balance individual classes based on the other classes. It was always about popularity, about groups or clans and their role in it. The only time they tried to bring balance was with GoD but players complained we are too much alike and the majority actually enjoyed the imbalance in the past.
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Re: About the splitting up of the Tyrr Warrior class

Postby Draecke » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:52 pm

oly doesnt have sonatas so if they're that dumb to improve certain skills and forget to take the sonatas effect into account then I fear the worst..
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Re: About the splitting up of the Tyrr Warrior class

Postby Elmar » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:08 pm

Well, we don't really know whether they base the balancing process exclusively on Olympiad stats. But when you look at the speed with which those changes arrive, a thorough evaluation of server logs seems not to have taken place. The temptation to use those ready made statistics is certainly very big and I fear that your fears are well founded :(
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Re: About the splitting up of the Tyrr Warrior class

Postby Elmar » Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:10 pm

KenLee wrote:"balancing"... that's a word I wouldn't use it. You had 34 classes but lots of them were useless PvP classes for years, including your Maestro... they never tried to balance individual classes based on the other classes. It was always about popularity, about groups or clans and their role in it. The only time they tried to bring balance was with GoD but players complained we are too much alike and the majority actually enjoyed the imbalance in the past.


My Maestro has a PvP count of 0 :D

"Balancing"/PC 밸런스 is the term used by GM Ishune in her article. But I am sure that the popularity of a class as shown by the number of characters logged in is also a factor in deciding which class should be boosted.
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Re: About the splitting up of the Tyrr Warrior class

Postby KnightOfDarkness » Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:19 pm

How do you go without pvping someone not even once?

Also tyrr warriors are a very strong olympiad class at level 99, especially vs the mystic archtypes.

In open pvp, good tyrr warriors (by good I don't mean overly equipped, I mean good) can destroy average parties alone.

So.. a class that is very powerful in closed 1v1, open 1v1 and in mass pvp is being boosted drastically because koreans like to fly around and shoot lasers is reminding why I haven't played L2 at all in the past couple of weeks. :s
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