Wynn in IO

Wynn in IO

Postby Illogical » Tue May 05, 2015 9:33 am

I thought it was time to make a read and weep thread again on Wynns.
Like every update Wynns get changed a lot, with a two sided blade giving you a boost and a nerf.
I am curious if other Wynns share my thoughts on it.

Pro's
- All the +Major (Heal) enchant routes on all defensive skills are insane life savers, if chained correctly.
- Marks based on M.Atk give an +INT build Wynn a viable chance, while +STR builds are more overall powerful

Con's
- Mark of Void no longer being a DoT heal
- Invoke losing 90% power and even with +10 Power (or +30 Power) enchant route won't fix that
- New melee Summon without Rush skill kinda bums
- Non existing lethal land rate due to Summons attack a target from the front by default design
- No AoE skill on new range Summon
- No enchant routes on 'old' Summons, making the tank one become obsolete when enemy is lv101+

Yeah a lot more Con's than Pro's. I am really bumbed out by Invoke losing so much power, it remove another bit of AoE capability of the Wynn, which was already low due to P.Atk based AoE skills and the new range Summon not having an AoE skill (with no +Power routes on 'old' Summons) killing off many possible AoE chances as a Wynn. On the long run, like in many updates in the past any other class will surpass the Wynn on that, if not already done.

Mark of Void losing it's Heal Over Time really killed the mana stability of the Wynn, aswell as survival rate in solo PvE and 1v1 PvP.
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Re: The Plan of the Ancients

Postby langlang » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:12 pm

Pretume wrote:Summoner never existed in L2 since day 1 except for inefficient solo PVE. I don't know why some people still get surprised about it just now. if you don't play the most OP class of the moment or you are worth nothing.


Summoner was the strongest class since day 1 in prelude. From level 20 to 50 it could effectively use both a summon and sorcerer skills. This meant you had your own recharge in an era where people werent using buff bots. After 50, the effectiveness of pre-class change skills fell off. This was supplemented by a stronger summon in chronicle 2, and then peaked in chronicle 4 when pets were finally allowed to use soul shots. Summoners dominated olypmiad. This was nerfed in c5, and pre-class change skills were completely crippled specifically to chop the legs off summoners.

The real reason summoner has never been popular was because it was physically impossible to bot a summoner until around the hell bound era, and even then the best the bot programs could do was let the buff pet cycle its buffs on cooldown rather than actually play as a summoner. When GOD update launched, wynns were extremely strong and in a non-bot setting, they greatly out prefered the other classes in pve. It wasn't until you hit the 90s, got the new 85+ gear and were able to bot/farm aoe that summoners once again fell off in strength. The main problem with the class has always been that the pet simply didn't scale with your gear. Ncsoft also intentionally crippled the pet Ai because in c4-c5, the pet would never miss. It always tracked its target and did massive damage. After that, ncsoft made its ai so it could be easily kited, and all you had to do to avoid a summon was to just keep moving. You use to also be able to summon multiple pets, which bots, finally able to use the class effectively, abused to the point of crippling the servers.

The summoner is the victim of its own success, and has been ruined by game developers unable to find a place for it in game. Its main short fall was its inability to be botted and join aoe groups for super-fast leveling. To a lesser extent, it suffered greatly from not scaling with gear in the same way everyone else did. To call it ineffective just demonstrates how terrible most players are at videogames.

Back in c4, I would solo silenos and other high level content that most people struggled to do. Later on, I would solo dark water dragons for crystal farming when they were 70-100m+ ea. I actually broke into a castle all by myself and would have taken it during the interlude period if I hadn't crashed in the throne room. The defending guild completely ignored me, they thought it impossible for 1 summon to break down a gate. I was among the first to enter the 90+ areas while everyone else was botting in the giants area. At a time, summoners were the best pve characters, and until ncsoft broke their ai and allowed boss jewels and other crit stacking modifiers to become prolific, they were also extremely good for pvp as the pets were durable and swift.

Ultimately, the real problem with summoners are that they required way too much skill to play. You had to constantly micromanage the pet and use skills and abilities creatively. You had to actually play the game and not afk with a bot program on. And thus, with few real players actually playing the class, it will forever be known as a terrible mess and a waste of space. It doesnt help that summoners are a mascot class for girls to play, ncsoft will never give it a serious make over.
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Re: The Plan of the Ancients

Postby Pretume » Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:03 am

L2 summoner treatment:

- developers: Look summoner is looking cool, let's cripple it because we love daggers, archers and nukers.
- developers: it seems it wasn't enough, some summoners are still doing well after farming the shit out of their lives, let's cripple it even more.
- developers: it seems they are still doing well in Oly, well , lets not only cripple them, but buff our beloved daggers, archers and nukkers, even warriors wannabe in order to counter it.
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Re: The Plan of the Ancients

Postby Draecke » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:24 am

there's a dedicated section for summoners and they are still huge PVE monsters when properly set up....

funny how you dont see nearly as many posts about how gimped tanks/iss etc are..
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Re: Wynn in IO

Postby Elmar » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:53 am

Moved :)

As to the PvE monster aspect, everybody check Draecke's post here:
viewtopic.php?f=45&t=1536#p31938
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Re: Wynn in IO

Postby Lineage » Tue Aug 25, 2015 6:50 pm

Wynns? Here they created two new classes without a single AOE (Sayha and Eviscerator), neglecting them from any end-game content (PvE especially), condemning them to endless solo.

Othells are single target too, but their leathal land rate, save a spot to party play.

Back to Wynns, i see at Core-Innova, that Wynns are in high demand for PvE content. So why the "complain" about them?
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Re: Wynn in IO

Postby ZeroX » Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:08 am

Because wynns are condemned to be unwanted and irrelevant in pvp, most of the main wynns go with their duals to PVP.
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Re: The Plan of the Ancients

Postby langlang » Tue Sep 01, 2015 2:08 am

Pretume wrote:L2 summoner treatment:

- developers: Look summoner is looking cool, let's cripple it because we love daggers, archers and nukers.
- developers: it seems it wasn't enough, some summoners are still doing well after farming the shit out of their lives, let's cripple it even more.
- developers: it seems they are still doing well in Oly, well , lets not only cripple them, but buff our beloved daggers, archers and nukkers, even warriors wannabe in order to counter it.

to this day I'm still mad about healers being able to banish summons. It makes no sense from a lore perspective and completely cripples the class in a way no other class can cripple another.
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Re: Wynn in IO

Postby Skeeto » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:17 pm

Well I play the summoner, and I'm doing perfectly fine in olympiad, out of 150 matches I lost 5 last month, and only cause of my mistake, or open arena vs rambo full stacked othells, who hit 50k ^^. In the two other arenas I haven't lost any matches since a year :D

„Achieve one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the peak of skills. Summit of skill is to defeat the enemy without fighting.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
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Re: The Plan of the Ancients

Postby ZeroX » Sun Sep 06, 2015 8:48 pm

langlang wrote:to this day I'm still mad about healers being able to banish summons. It makes no sense from a lore perspective and completely cripples the class in a way no other class can cripple another.

funny thing is that banishing summon helps wynn. i can summon it back full HP if it was transfer pain pet, without debuffs on it, saves the trouble of healing it.
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